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Weekend Waffle and some WIS questions

  1. Longbow Jan 13, 2018

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    My first automatic wrist watch was (still is) fitted with an ETA 2789-1 movement.
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    In all the years up to my first Omega it never occurred to me that I needed to hack a movement to be able to precisely set the seconds. Even if it had, it wasn’t possible (on my watch), so it didn’t bug me. I did however strongly appreciate being able to quickset the day and date without endless crown/hand spinning.
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    When I received my first Omega I discovered the joys of movement hacking and wondered how I ever managed to live without such an important feature. I was also able to quickset the day, date and reasonably quickly the month.

    As time progressed and I found my eyesight getting worse I started hunting for something with better legibility, meaning a less cluttered dial and eventually landed the Globemaster which took things to new heights. Now I had a METAS certified hacking movement with quickset hour, a sort of semi-GMT, but no day and a stunningly beautiful dial.

    With the GM also came OmegaForums and an appreciation of vintage Omegas, which lead to my first foray into this mine field. Having probably overpaid for my BA168.022 Seamaster I recon I recovered the value in the form of gained knowledge (learning by screwing up).
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    Two things of significance come to mind this evening as I write: I hadn’t expected (back then) that the much praised 564 movement would be non-hacking and that it would be such a fiddle wrt the push-pull quickset date. Frankly speaking, the ETA did everything better (except aesthetics).

    Then came the 751 tucked away inside a very pretty C-cased Constellation, but again, the supposedly great 751 didn’t seem to me to be as good as my original ETA 2789-1. Still no hacking seconds, no quickset day and that strange push-pull date quick set function again. Of course one can Google and read up on all this sort of stuff but there is no substitute for getting the things in your sweaty mitts and trying for yourself.

    My more recently acquired Railmaster LE put things back on track; hacking movement, no day, no date, no month and definitely no moon farce nonsense to set.
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    So everything’s peachy right? Well, not exactly. For whatever reason I can now add to my crap eyesight, an astonishing ability to not know what day of the week it is. Perhaps it’s in the nature of being a scatterbrained aerospace researcher over 50, but I really do get so lost in my work that I totally lose track of where I am in the week. There is indeed a need for day and date on my watch.

    Now the obvious conclusion here would be to flog the whole luxury circus and just use my original ETA-based auto. Well yes and no. You can’t unsee beauty and you can’t un-experience quality. Oh and my old Seafarer needs servicing (the Witschi Chronoscope was only showing 190 deg when it was checked last month).

    At some point along the journey I picked up a Sinn 104 St Sa I. Great painted dial with excellent legibility, quickset date and day in two languages and hacking seconds thanks to a Sellita SW220-1. Oh and water resistant to 200m with screw-down crown, AR coated Saphire crystal, beveled lugs and a rotating countdown bezel...for a fraction of the price of Swiss offerings. That had to be the one then. Also not. It should be spot on and on paper (or touch screen for the kiddies) it is, but it somehow feels like a watch designed from a check box of options rather than based on passion.


    Duh.


    By now you might be thinking a few things (apart from when is he going to shut up):-
    1. What triggered all this soul searching
    2. Do we get any new photos?

    OK, two birds with one stone.

    I wondered past a jewelers this afternoon, one that I‘ve never noticed before, on account of the pink frosted out windows, and noticed one of those „way-out-of-reach“ trinity watches, namely the latest VC Overseas 4500V.

    Normally I would take a deep breath regain my composure and walk on by. Not this time. I just had to mess things up and go in, and ask, and look and well you know try it on.
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    People, it‘s good; it’s very, very good. Beautiful case, beautiful dial, beautiful bracelet. Very clever but simple to use swap systems on the bracelet to head attachment and the strap to deployant clasp.
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    Also a nice hidden micro-extension system to the bracelet.
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    This felt like so many of my watches all rolled into one piece of perfection.
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    The case style of my GM and Connie somehow morphed together, the simplicity and flexibility of the RM and GM bracelets combined, a deep blue dial to drown in, perrrfect...right up to the point where I unscrewed and pulled out the 150m-rated crown, only to discover that the movement doesn’t hack!

    So, that‘s the waffly bit over, now to the WIS bit.


    What is going on inside these movements that makes hacking possible or not as the case may be?


    What are the differences between an old ETA 2789-1, a modern Mecaline ETA 2836-2 and a Sellita 220-1?


    Why is day/Date change so much easier on the ETAs and clones vs the iconic Omega 500 and 700 series movements?


    And why would a high end watch like this VC not include a hacking feature?
     
    Edited Jan 13, 2018
    JimInOz, Stewart H, Bushido and 4 others like this.
  2. jimmyd13 Jan 13, 2018

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    I was playing with an early hacking movement this week and was surprised at how simple it was. That example, from 1904, pushes a spring against the balance to stop the movement. What happens in modern watches is all smoke and magic ... my eyes are like yours and I can't even see without a big arsed magnifying glass. Time to focus on pocket watches and clocks!
     
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  3. Bushido Jan 13, 2018

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    I have no idea why this VC does not have the hacking feature inside the movement. It is a little surprising. I was able to find that this Overseas has their 5100 caliber. However, I don't know much about it as I've never gotten deep with VC models.

    To the more general question of hacking and what is going on, WatchTime seems to have a pretty good explanation/definition:

    "Also known as hack or stop seconds. A watch that “hacks” or that has “hacking seconds” is one in which the seconds hand stops when the crown is pulled out. Hacking is typically achieved when pulling the crown out to the time-setting position causes a brake or lever to come into contact with the rim of the balance wheel, causing it to stop and to be held in position." https://www.watchtime.com/reference-center/glossary/hacking-seconds/
     
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  4. Vitezi Jan 13, 2018

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    Love that VC. ::love:: Um, what was the question again?
     
  5. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jan 14, 2018

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    That OCD thing is a bastard. Fortunately, my life doesn't need to be timed to the second, so a hacking movement is just an extra toy for me.
     
  6. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jan 14, 2018

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    You need to know what day it is, :whistling:

    image.jpeg
     
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  7. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jan 14, 2018

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    1 - The mechanism used for hacking can vary, but in many modern watches the stop lever looks something like this:

    [​IMG]

    And mounted it looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    The short portion fits into a groove in the sliding pinion, so when the crown is pulled out to the setting position the lever swings in and touches the rim of the balance, stopping the watch. Some designs use a part that slides in a groove instead, like the ETA 7750 family:

    [​IMG]

    And the F. Piguet based Omega 3301/3303/3313 series:

    [​IMG]

    Some are slightly more complex, like on this Grand Seiko movement I serviced a number of years ago - several parts to the lever and pivot points stretching from one side of the movement to the other:

    [​IMG]

    Some watches stop the hand at 12 o'clock (letting the watch continue to tick after the crown is pulled) by having a post on a wheel that comes around to touch a lever, or by sticking a wire up through the dial to stop the hand...there are many ways to skin this particular cat.

    2 - Lots of differences between the older 2789 and the 2836. Different beat rates, balance spring materials, mainspring materials, etc.

    The SW220-1 is a copy of the 2836-2, but Sellita doesn't yet make their own escapements and balances, so there's plenty of ETA/Nivarox parts in these movements.

    3 - Date change the later 560 series (563, 564, 565) and the 750 series is pretty easy using the push-pull on the crown. The day on the 750's not so much, but they are just different designs than the current movements.

    4 - Only VC knows why they chose to do that...

    Cheers, Al
     
  8. Longbow Jan 14, 2018

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    Crystal clear, fascinating and informative answer, thanks Al, much appreciated.

    Nick