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Watchmaker's lathe...some recent work

  1. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 18, 2020

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    So the watchmaker's lathe is an invaluable piece of equipment for any watchmaker's shop. I use mine on and off, but lately have been doing a few smaller things, so I thought I'd show some of that for those who might be interested. I received a watch for servicing that wasn't well supported in the case, and only had this flimsy spring holding it all in place:

    [​IMG]

    The case back would press on the tabs, and that was supposed to hold it all solid in the case, but any impact would not end well. I hesitate to even call it a spring it was so thin and ineffective, so I wanted to make a spacer for it. After looking through my usual materials, I didn't have brass that was quite large enough, or some other plastics that I have used in the past, but what I did have was some Lexan sheeting, so step one was cutting out a piece to turn on the lathe. I found the closest hole saw I had to the OD I needed (quite a bit oversize), and cut the sheet:

    [​IMG]

    I then drilled the center hole out large enough for a bolt that would act as a mandrel:

    [​IMG]

    Now I've mounted that in the 3-jaw chuck, and I'm ready to start:

    [​IMG]

    That plan lasted all of about a minute - turns out Lexan is quite difficult to cut, and I had a lot of material to remove. It was really grabbing at the gravers and was stalling out the lathe (belt slipping):

    [​IMG]

    So rather than approach it from the OD, I cut from the face - here I've etched some rough guidelines for the spare, leaving myself a lot of room to fine tune:

    [​IMG]

    Now I'm plunging the graver pretty much straight in from the face, just to remove stock from the OD:

    [​IMG]

    Lots of white makes it difficult to see the details, but I've tried to show where I've cut the deep groove in the face - almost broken through at this point:

    [​IMG]

    And not long after, here is the ring I wanted to cut off - this made a good dry run:

    [​IMG]

    Still had some stock to remove from the OD, but getting there now:

    [​IMG]

    Test fit - perfectly snug fit on the case:

    [​IMG]

    Now I make another face cut to form a doughnut essentially, so I've added some arrows to show the wall thickness of the spacer:

    [​IMG]

    Now that I have the OD and ID thr right sizes, I cut the ring off using a jeweller's saw:

    [​IMG]

    Basically run the lathe, and let the saw do the work:

    [​IMG]

    Here is the rough spacer:

    [​IMG]

    Test fit in the case - looking good:

    [​IMG]

    After some deburring and a thorough cleaning, a test fit with the movement - looks good for ID and OD, but it's a little too thick with the dial taken into account:

    [​IMG]

    Back to the lathe, this time chucking the work from the ID:

    [​IMG]

    Bringing it to the final thickness:

    [​IMG]

    Now I need room for the stem to pass through:

    [​IMG]

    Round file does the job well:

    [​IMG]

    Now done - the flimsy spring has been eliminated, and the movement is very secure in the case:

    [​IMG]

    This wasn't the only lathe work for this specific watch...this one has Kif Trior shock protection, and these are loose shock springs with 3 tabs that are rotated to remove and install them. Easy to remove just with tweezers, but to install them you must compress all three tabs at once, then turn the spring:

    [​IMG]

    Photo from before service by the way. I have used peg wood to make installation tools before, but the one I had on hand was too large, so I decided to make one out of brass rod for this watch:

    [​IMG]

    Turned down the OD, then cut a recess in the very end:

    [​IMG]

    This recess allows clearance for the cap jewel, so I can press down just on the very edges of the shock spring:

    [​IMG]

    And here it is in action - worked great:

    [​IMG]

    I have cut various types of materials on the lathe, so brass, steels (including stainless), but I have to say that Lexan was ugly. Tips of my fingers were sore from the graver getting so hot I couldn't hold it. Never had that happen with any other material, so I'll find some better stock for future spacers I think.

    Cheers, Al
     
  2. Dan S Apr 18, 2020

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    Nice work, and a fun read as always.

    My watchmaker is making a stem for me currently ... presumably yet another use for a watchmaker's lathe.

    Regarding the spacer, Delrin is a pleasure to machine, although probably overkill in terms of cost and material properties. Nylon is also easy in my experience.
     
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  3. Jonathan40 Apr 18, 2020

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    Really interesting to see you at work, I am a systems engineer by trade and love the whole engineering aspect of how a watch and all its parts are intricately joined to make the hands, and everything else on a complication watch function. Doing all this is a space envelope of 25-35mm x 4-10mm is mind blowing.
    You are a true master of your craft and I really look forward to your posts whenever one pops up.
    Regards
    Jon
     
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  4. DaveK Yoda of Yodelers Apr 18, 2020

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    Anyone else think that Archer could make a very entertaining show in the History Channel? :coffee:
     
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  5. Fritz genuflects before the mighty quartzophobe Apr 18, 2020

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    very cool... but all that effort for a Wesclox?

    that's like grinding a custom camshaft for a Briggs & Stratton.
     
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  6. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 18, 2020

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    If it was your late grandfather’s watch, you might feel differently as the owner of this lowly Westclox does...

    The value of a watch just isn’t about how much money it’s worth.

    But thanks for letting me know you think I’ve wasted my time on it...
     
  7. UncleBuck understands the decision making hierarchy Apr 18, 2020

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    Golden quote that is the heart of this forum, a collector's forum.

    I have a lathe that looks good on my bench but....

    bench.jpg
     
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  8. TexOmega Apr 18, 2020

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    Impressive skill set and dedication shown here.:thumbsup:

    I always enjoy your down in the nitty gritty pictures and explanation.
     
  9. Cenzo Apr 18, 2020

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    Thanks for the post Archer. I appreciate the details and am blown away by the craftsmanship of your work.
    Not to mention all the excellent info you take time to post on the forum. Thank you.
     
  10. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Apr 18, 2020

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    Great as usual!
     
  11. marturx Apr 18, 2020

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    As a layman in the technical aspects of watches, these are the posts I’ve appreciated the most. A great contribution to the forum.

    And, the sentimental value of a watch can be far greater than the market value. Every now and then it can be good to be reminded of that....
     
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  12. Fritz genuflects before the mighty quartzophobe Apr 18, 2020

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    Don't take me wrong. I get the sentimental value thing and have spent some pretty silly amounts on old family pieces that aren't worth the cost of the repair.
    And it always nice to run into a professional who gets that as well. I knew one watchmaker who wouldn't have fixed that because he was above such work or some such stuck up thing, needless to say I don't bother with him anymore.

    As for wasting your time, if its fun or gives you any sense of accomplishment there's nothing wrong with that either. I've wasted more than a few afternoon's fixing some silly thing just because I wanted to try. Sometimes you just end up on a mission, maybe spending twenty bucks on materials to repair a clapped out device thats only worth thirty new.

    and yes, I have tuned an old flathead motor just for the fun of it.
     
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  13. ExpiredWatchdog Apr 18, 2020

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    Very nice work. I've always wondered how you keep a parallel cut on a watchmaker's lathe. I remember you posting a thread about turning down a piece of brass for repairing a main plate that had wear around the crown wheel. When you were finished with the rough cut, you had a cylinder that fit neatly into a collet and that required a certain amount of control in the diameter. While I'm sure there's a trick, I'm used to a machinist's lathe with a cross slide that keeps everything on the square. The only thing I see on that lathe is the little post that I presume guides your hand and the tool.

    If you place it at an angle, do you get a tapered cut? If so, how do you insure that it's square for a straight cut.

    Some day I'll buy a watchmaker's lathe and learn everything the hard way, but at this point I'm just curious.

    Thanks
     
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  14. Faz Apr 18, 2020

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    That's your rebuttal? :thumbsdown:
     
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  15. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 19, 2020

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    Doing the job right is never a waste of time.

    As a professional, when someone sends me their watch for service, it doesn't matter if it's a vintage Patek, Vacheron, Rolex, Omega, Bulova, or this Westclox - the watch will get the same level of care and attention. If a watchmaker is not doing this, they are not truly a professional in my eyes.

    I spent even more time making a wax chuck to fix an old Bulova recently, as outlined in this thread:

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/watchmaking-crown-wheel-seat-repair.108810/

    Again it's an heirloom watch, and the market doesn't value the movement in this watch at all either - I bought several movements to use for spare parts and I don't think I paid more than $10 each for them. When I commit to a job, I do it to the best of my ability, and the name on the dial or movement is irrelevant.

    You appear to be judging this watch by the name, and although that sort of judgement is not uncommon in watch collector circles, it's often misguided. The dial is signed "Westport" which is a sub-brand of Westclox. The movement in this watch is a Standard Cal. 1686, and this is based on the A. Schild 1194 (the layout is unmistakable). This is a Swiss made 17 jewel caliber of good quality, and you will often find them in good quality vintage watches, such as Gruen. Makers like A. Schild were the ETA of their era, supplying good quality movements to many small and large brands. There are not inferior movements in any way - final Delta on this was just over 13 seconds over 6 positions. That isn't quite what Omega requires for their COSC watches (12 seconds over 5 positions) but it certainly exceeds the requirement for something like a Cal. 1861 found in the Speedmasters.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  16. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 19, 2020

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    It's just done with skill and practice. There's no guide other than your eye and measuring the diameter with calipers in this case, or with micrometers in that other thread. How parallel or not the cut is, depth of cut, etc. is all controlled by how you hold and move the graver. The tool rest just supports the tool. Your eye is more accurate then you think for judging how parallel something is. With time and experience making cuts within tolerances of less than 100th of a mm is not difficult.

    Cheers, Al
     
  17. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 19, 2020

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    Delrin isn't as expensive as Lexan...I know I've bought boatloads of both over the years. I do have some UHMW-PE but it was very thick stock, so opted for the Lexan. If my brass bar stock was a bit larger, that's the ideal material in my view. When the lockdown ends, I may grab a short brass bar of larger diameter than the one I have in stock now for future spacers.
     
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  18. mr_smith Apr 19, 2020

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    Fantastic. Very intriguing post. I went back through it with my wife (not as much of a watch enthusiast as I am but I think she's coming around more and more... some real interest in the newer, green Omega AT) because I found it so interesting - wanted to share it! Thanks for this.

    And, while not excluding, but aside from the interest in the post or watches, I agree with the statement, "Doing the job right is never a waste of time." I wish more people would follow this line of thinking.
     
  19. NT931 Apr 19, 2020

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    Threads like these (with pics) remind me what's good about this forum - the community, and the collective learning we all gain from one of @Archer 's informative (and pic-heavy) posts.

    Personally, I think the pics add a lot to the experience!
     
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  20. brownwld Apr 19, 2020

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    It is alwys nice to see under watchmaker´s hands. :)
    Thanks for it.