Watchfid..... Marketing of Military Speedmasters....

To me there is a huge difference between Military "Used" and Military "Issued".

"Used" would imply a privately purchased watch by a member of the Military and used during their career. Most of these watches are no different then those bought by you or I and IMO bring no extra collector value to the watch. A very few of these watches can bring some significant collector value if the provenance is there. I have seen standard Rolex 5513s sell for big bucks because the owner was a Military diver and the watch was fully documented with photos of the watch being worn during active war time duty as well as excessive duty logs backing up the watches use.

"Issued" on the other hand are a limited number of watches that were purchased by a Government and issued to their troops for military use. These have collector value due to their limited numbers produced along with special markings sometimes and a paper trail from the watch manufacturer.

I agree that some unscrupulous sellers draw a very fine line between the above and think that just because a watch was owned by someone in the military that it is instantly worth a fortune. This is where I disagree.

I am specifically interested in watches of WWI, because that was when the wristwatch really became popular. I have an Elgin "Foch" with a 1917 dial and remnants of its original black paint finish that may have seen combat... or may not have. No military markings, but maybe they weren't marked. In any event, it's a neat little piece of watch history.

I only wish the Ingersoll Midget I had would have been usable more today. It kept time for a while....

And, Elgin had a lot of them they sold after the war. But, 1917 date on the dial....

Tom

Hi all,

Feel the need to come here and defend my watches a little.
Achim I know your name for the last 20 years from MWR etc and I cant believe someone with your knowledge would research before making sly assumptions .

Firstly after 2 years of buying these which I still am direct from Zimbabwe I approached Moon Watch Only and asked them if they would like to do an article for me . I dont think there has been any over selling or stories to jump the price of watches there interest started after the article they produced on the limited information we had at the time. I would say the article pretty much needs a good update already.

Firstly I will start with the " Red Herring" comment .
The Omega 53's which are actually 2777-3 and 2777-4 have a different case design , different model number , differences in dials and have some very unusual over sized Omega crowns not seen before (I believe) have again all come direct from a the Zimbabwe Military through a contact to me complete in all there broken parts, glasses and skin particles still attached. Some have red hands some dont but the full spec large crown etc seem to have the red hands. There has been nothing touched or messed with since there service days. The Omegas generally have serial numbers very close to each other with a few digits

My purchases over the time has included a large amount of Lemania single button chronos all with markings that have not been seen on standard UK ones. There has been a few some through with standard MOD Markings of 0552 and HS9 . Most of these came with store cards. Again the serial numbers generally follow a close pattern on these

The MK2s nothing actually stands out from these a normal mk 2 except the serial numbers again are very close including 2 following ones .
I also have one with the pilots name on the back which I have done some great reading about.

Then the Speedmaster moon watches .
Yes I admit from 1 extract from the archives we have learnt nothing from Omega ( good on you for following up on that Achim )
I am obviously trying my best to get further information from Omega , they are not the easiest company to talk with and get a reply.
10 have been found so far , and the serial numbers follow very precisely .
They have NON Nasa case backs the engraving has not been removed . They have fat 5.5mm pushers. unknown on any other Speedmasters . Quite unique in many ways .
Are they military issued , I can say yes without a single doubt. How they were ordered I do not know but trying my best to work on this .

All the watches have had a very hard life but do follow a nice pattern 56/57 omegas , 60/62 Lemanias , 69 and 71 MK 2s , and 76 Moon watches.

I knew they were issued from the start especially from how and where I have purchased them from, but sure this does not 100% prove they were issued to the rest of the world granted. But I also see no proof in most military watches , just quantity that justifies proof. I think in the end there will be enough evidence .

I will be starting a website dedicated to the Military Rhodesia watches but Im still collecting my research .
But I have found out a lot of interesting stuff along the way along with a lot of interesting photos .

Im sure it wont mean much at this stage but unlike most other watches where history is very hard to track there are a lot of Rhodesia pilots still alive and on social media. The Rhodesia airforce was a very small amount of people and most remember the names of the people they served with.
I have tracked one Pilot that still has his "ISSUED" moon watch and I have seen photographic evidence of him wearing it he has confirmed this to me and I am working on further information from him.

Its going to be time consuming but a lot more over time will come out . When I have enough material I will open a website with my research . I wont lie information is slow and hard to get , but more comes my way every week that goes by.

If anyone is interested in the Rhodesia history theirs a youtube program called "Fighting me of Rhodesia" over 30 episodes with interviews . A fantastic watch . You could really do with catching up on it Achim you might learn a bit of history from the men themselves. I had no idea until I started watching these interviews and im hooked.

Its a real shame this day and age theirs always someone ready to call people out with little to no facts and a known name should really think twice before using his position .

Finding a new batch of watches has been amazing for me , not a single one of them from the Lemanias to the Omegas has been known about in much detail. Its been a great find and its just gutting to read posts like this on the net.
Its going to be time consuming and a long journey but to me the Rhodesia Moon watches are very special.

Regards, David

David, great to hear from you ! You are, without any doubt, the most knowlegdeable name in this field and I have always respected you for your specific research. My original post was aimed at sales practices and sales marketing from the above company rgd. Military " issued " Omega's. Especially US Military without any proof of " issued " Omegas. Rgd. Rhodesia: More specific were my doubts in stamping the Moon watches past Independence with the nomenclature from the colonial period. And marketing these as military issued Speedmaster's. Without proof, that marketing was premature in my opinion. The only logical reason , I can think of, is, that these were still bought by the UK MoD after the independence and delivered to Rhodesia. And being a small Airforce, they could not care less, what was stamped on the back. I don't have a lot of time in the moment to write a lot more, but will do so soon. Maybe that topic is too specific for this forum and we do that via txt.? If other members are interested to continue this here , let us know. Kind regards. Achim

Thank you for the reply Achim ,

I completely understand your post about US military and Naffi etc... I find them interesting but not in the same category as issued. You will know back in the day it was full of new finds and great information now many are just questioning if marking have been added as does happen a lot. Thats why I do not post on forums often now .

I pretty sure the purchase was made by the Rhodesia military same for the 69 , 71 Omega MK2s . Theres a lot to find out. Im happy to discuss over email at any time but for now im still in the gathering information stage. I should perhaps do a post about my 2777 on here one day see what people make of the differences in the watches ive found I believe they could be the missing link to the early Bienne dials but a theory for now one that I will be happy to be schooled on .

Yes please do discuss here if you are so inclined — I am very interested to learn more about this as well.

I think this is one of the most fascinating topics on OF right now. Please carry on!

I love this, where did you find it?

A bit off topic but I was actually curious to know if people would pay more for a Speedmaster that had been to space.
If so, does it matter if it got there using a weather balloon or if an actual astronaut wore it (or just carried it with him and brought back).
Does it matter if it was in low or high earth orbit?
Does it get more points for being in the ISS?
How many points for being on the moon?

You know what would really be cool? A Speedmaster that was used in auto racing. 😝