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  1. plongeur78 Jun 21, 2013

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    Hi All

    1st posting newbie looking for help,i have recently been looking at vintage seamasters/baby proplof omegas from watchCo australia as ive had a new found desire for vintage! and would like to hear of anyone's opinions/experiences on the company and also any views on NOS omega's compared to originals?(Values,authenticity etc) any help would be much appreciated!

    Thanks
     
  2. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Jun 21, 2013

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    Reliable seller. These watches you are referring to are typically constructed with new parts combined with a vintage movement. The parts are authentic but it will not be valued at the same level as a vintage example in similar condition. It is usually purchased by those wanting a vintage look in a "new" watch combined with some modern conveniences (like lume).
     
  3. plongeur78 Jun 21, 2013

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    Thanks for the quick response MSNWatch.Im really after an original if possible as i prefer an authentic original piece but they are very tempting so i guess its wanted ads time next!
     
  4. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Jun 21, 2013

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    Agree with everything MSN has laid out.

    The argument re "Watchco v original" has been hacked to death on the internet, just Google for points of view.

    My 300 was from Watcho and I love it, knowing exactly what it is, i.e.: service parts (and a NOS movement which was unusual).

    I also have a "baby Ploprof" with similar build details but a reborn movement.

    Know what you want and what you are buying and you can't go wrong.

    It also wouldn't hurt to give Rob or Marcus an enquiry or an offer ;)
     
  5. plongeur78 Jun 21, 2013

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    Thanks JimInOz

    Yes ive been scouring the web for info,they have some great watches,think an offer for their advertised ''baby Ploprof'' will be made soon!
     
  6. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Jun 21, 2013

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    Make sure you do it through their ebay site, the old website hasn't been updated for years.
     
  7. rolexfantastic Jun 22, 2013

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    No matter where you buy, either ebay or their website, or simply contacting Watchco / Rob directly, you'll have no surprises. Let me remind you there are no many Omega NOS parts suppliers these days, especially in the vintage category. And Watchco happens to be one of them.
    I personally find more appealing the vintage look but when you need to restore one and you simply don't have or can't source the missing parts, it is a good place to inquire.

    /F
     
  8. dstella Jun 22, 2013

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    I think that versimilitude may be it.

    Omega did not serialize its cases until relatively recently - meaning that it only has records of movements (which themselves were serialized later). This was consistent with what looked like a lot of watch companies' practices, which probably assumed that no one would bother to switch an entire movement or an entire case. So you are not really risking your immortal soul by constructing a watch from genuine parts that does not exist in the Domesday Book or whatever Bienne calls it - all they track on older ones is movements (and if you don't believe me, check out their vintage pages, where they can't even tell you for many calibers what the available cases looked like...). And Omega's recordkeeping is pretty poor.

    And we lose track that until some vintage Rolex (or maybe Seiko) collectors invented "all original" fetishism,* watches were generally maintained both mechanically and cosmetically for both the functional and jewelry aspects. That means that hands would get replaced, dials would be replated/refinished/replaced, and luminous material would be renewed (watches were not really even moisture-proof until very recently, and stuff just went bad). Some Omega watches even had complete cases available as a replacement part. Omega didn't intend you to be walking around with a banged-up, scratched up watch with a peeling dial and crusty non-glowing but still radioactive hands (nor, for that matter, did the original owners of these watches). Omega's restoration service ($$$$) is a testament to the fact that Omega thinks it's OK to make things look good even if heroics are required to do it.

    So although it may not be everyone's cup of tea, I think there are strong arguments for maintaining original intent by keeping a watch in "new"-looking trim, including moving luminous material to SL or NL. That's not to say you should use aftermarket parts if you can avoid it.** And some people certainly prefer the "aged" look. Watches exist for our enjoyment, so no one should feel any moral obligation to do things one way or another.

    D

    *When you make millions of watches a year, and tons of vintage examples exist (Oysterdate Precision is a great example), you need a differentiator. You don't need such a differentiator if you have a legitimately rare watch.

    **Even then, the definition of "aftermarket" in the Swiss industry is a little vague. There is a very small supply base, so your "bestfit" part may well have been made by the same supplier as the OEM part (not unlike car parts such as brake rotors). Watch hands are actually fairly generic (I believe I read somewhere that they are down to only two manufacturers). Dials, likewise, were not made by the companies selling the watches.
     
  9. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Jun 22, 2013

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    If you obtain an extract for omega - they will be able to tell you what case reference number that movement came in (you provide the movement serial number). A few of their records are missing - for some 1960s speedmasters for example - but for the most part it is intact. The major auction houses such as Sotheby's and Christies regularly do this for the omegas that they auction. The record keeping of omega is actually pretty good in this respect. Now you may decide this isn't important for you and don't mind mixing and matching things - that's your prerogative but the vintage omegas that will fetch the highest values are the ones that have their original parts in the best possible condition.
     
  10. dstella Jun 22, 2013

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    MSNWatch - that's been exactly my experience with them - that you can get to the general case reference number (but not necessarily the color of the dial or the specific cosmetic configuration of dial/hands) at least through the 1970s.

    And depending on the era, the case number may not be very helpful. This is a real bear with some F300s, where you could have two (or even three) slightly different dials in the same color (or different colors) for the same reference no (198.012 had two different black dials, one with a 12 marker and one without; 198.013 had three different colors of the same dial - black, silver, and blue). And it goes without saying that the hand paint color then necessarily changes, and sometimes the hand lengths. The 500-series watches, usually in 2846/2848 cases (itself vague...), have a seemingly and unfortunately unlimited number of dial/hand permutations - Omega simply says "different" dials were available. Where a case could have many possible combinations, you almost have to do a statistical study of pictures to see what were the common (and therefore "correct") configurations. I suspect that the more specialized (and expensive) the Omega, the fewer combinations were possible for each case ref. no.

    The modern cases with the decimalized numbers now carry all of the information - which makes it easier to find the right part (or figure out whether the dial color is right when you are buying it). Of course, they are also laser-engraved with their own SNs.

    How do you think Omega would record the NOS movements that Watchco uses? Certainly if those mechanisms were available as a part, there would have to be some way to account for them.


    I'm not advocating creating parts combinations that do not (or would not) exist "in nature" per existing records, but there is definitely a difference between collecting them for their originality and restoring them so that you can enjoy them as they would have appeared "back in the day."

    D