And don't forget selling/payment fees and shipping? As well as the fact that only a seller with a strong history and reputation can get top dollar. This seller would be lucky to break even in the end. And in the process he'll be lucky if he doesn't have to deal with scammers, looky-loos, complainers, returners, etc.

The difference between a theoretical top dollar sales price and real-life is like night and day. It's always the people with little experience selling who think it's a goldmine. As an occasional seller, I don't look forward to doing it, and I'm generally happy to break even.

 

C24 should create an app where it tracks the value of your watch in real time every day, like the stock market. And you can trade in watch futures, and bundle watches together for sub prime lending. That way we can bring the total insanity of the world wide financial situation into vintage watches, and totally destroy the soul of why we got into watches in the first place.

Rant aside, obviously we all have to be smart with watches, they can be very expensive. I've made the mistake of bringing investing mindset to watches, mostly because I'm pulling funds that would otherwise go into investment accounts. Looking over my spreadsheet of buying and selling, for a total of selling around 50 watches since I started collecting, I'm currently up a grand total $185 USD. Some of those were big losses, some big gains, and most were break even. That's not counting the thousands of hours of my time, or all the tiny little fees here and there that I don't keep track of. That doesn't take into account all my current watches, which tend to be the best, and potentially the most appreciated.

Anyhow, no one is saying to be stupid, to not pay attention to the finances, etc. The conversation about money and watches always tends to come back to the same refrain, which is experienced collectors saying forget about investing, just be smart and follow what you love, as an enjoyable hobby. If you do this, you will probably also do just fine on the $$ side.

Of course, just saying this doesn't mean anything, and it won't do anything. Because people are stupid, and never listen to anyone, and have to make the same mistakes for themselves, over and over and over. At least I am.

 

The irony of this thread having been started when it was is incalculably deep.

 

Some people really do go into anal overdrive on this topic. If all I wanted to do was to ‘invest’ in watches I really wouldn’t waste time involving myself in discussions on this forum. However, pick the right watch and it can be viewed as a reasonable investment/safe haven, so good job I say. Don’t forget to invest your $185 wisely - you never know?

 

That's because the number of new threads created on this topic (edit: being 'watches/investment') is in 'anal overdrive'...its absolutely diarrhetic (especially considering what is happening in the world presently)...

 

Tudor was always good for people that wanted a good looking watch with a good history and performance. It may be less of an investment opportunity now if their supply has exceeded current demand but I suppose the same argument could be made about the dozens of diamond encrusted datejusts available at any Rolex retailer. The “investor” watch collector has ruined a lot for the average watch enthusiast.

As I’ve opined before the investors that keep flipping watches are going to be left without a chair when the music stops. If that $9000 Batman that you paid $17000 for stops being so desirable or Rolex just keeps pushing them along for years to come, you’ll be luck to get $12000. Not bad if you paid $9000. Not so good if you paid $17000

 

I notice some good prices on vintage Rolex on Reddit. Seems like some prices coming down (on something’s) I bought one watch on Reddit without any issue but I am hesitant to use fandf with someone I don’t know. Found a nice Tudor in Texas but it went during discussions with the seller.

 

Today I the Antiquorum Auctions people still spend high $ for all the watches on sale none of them as undersold , was looking , I bought also no real panic at the moment

 

Agree - the real lesson in the AQ auction is that excellent watches are still selling and poor and mediocre ones don’t sell or sell below market.

 

I was surprised at a lot of watches that passed despite what seemed at first glance to be a relatively low reserve. But after reading the opinions here, I'm questioning my first-glance judgement, and I'll go back and have a closer look.

 

A friend just messaged me telling that on the most visited Danish FB group for watch selling there are now 67 Rolex 116610 listed, some of the ones a couple of years old are below current list price. All of these bar perhaps a few listings are from Danish sellers and our nation is tiny.

67 submariners... The tide has turned, IMO.

 

I definitely am on the “buy for passion and enjoy appreciation if it happens” side of the argument, but people can’t deny that watches are an asset that appreciates. Even further, watches can prove to be a very solid investment if you have good information or can find a great deal somewhere.

In the past, records show that watches (along with similar assets) maintain strong value through downturns and recessions. And though some bubbles are beginning to burst as COVID breaks out, I think we’re only seeing a period of hesitation as people are testing the waters to make sure this time will be no different than the others. Vintage watches are still selling, and if you have a watch in great condition I wouldn’t worry about it. If you’re trying to buy, always focus on condition as that will guarantee you the best possible outcome. Definitely don’t buy a worse quality ‘higher tier’ watch, even if it means you have to not get the reference you want. Always buy the best of what your budget allows and at the end of the day, you better like what you own because if it all hits zero you still have to wear it!!

 

I think it goes without saying that you should only look at watches that have proven history of retaining value. You can look through those old catalogs and see a steady increase (that outperforms inflation) with watches. Simply saying “not all watches will increase in value” does not mean that vintage watches as a whole are not an asset class that has the potential to appreciate.

With the same argument, stocks are not “an asset that appreciates” as some go down and ‘some catch the breeze.’ You can’t just blindly associate all watches as ‘good investments’ just as you can’t associate all stocks as ‘good investments.’ But in the general sense, stocks are a solid asset class and are good places to invest money and I believe watches can be treated much the same.

With respect and research, you can identify watches that have showed a strong history of retaining or increasing in value and in some cases you may be able to identify a brand that is underrepresented and paddle towards the wave before the rest of the market rides it. But either way you need to educate yourself (just as you would with stocks) to make purchases that you can *feel* are good buying decisions. No guarantees in watches just as much as stocks in my opinion.

I would also disagree with your point that ‘limited few models’ catch the breeze, this is quite the contrary as you can see the dramatic rise of value of the second hand watch market over the last ten years (when this whole thing really caught on to a larger audience). Going from $2-3B to $10-15B (depending on who you ask) in a span of 5-7 years is significant! The market as a whole has exploded and it is undoubtedly true that vintage watches are an ‘appreciating asset’ when bought in the right manner.

But...! I circle all the way back around to the fact that unlike stocks, they are an asset that you can enjoy! And because of this, I’d say you should lead with passion as you amass a collection (for investment or enjoyment) because if this all goes away you’ll have to still smile when you’re wearing what you have left! So while we disagree in some areas, we end up agreeing in the end: buy what you love.

 

I must be a terrible buyer, since the vast majority of the watches I sell net me only a small profit after fees and shipping.

Do you buy and sell often, or is this more of a hypothetical statement?

 

Sorry for the confusion! And definitely, I think that ‘watch funds’ should not become commonplace.

 

I’ve bought and sold for a number of years as a collector and have now begun dealing. Homerun’s are very hard to find in watches, most dealers (honest ones!) work on slim margins and capitalize on forging great relationships rather than hedging bets on individual watches.

Additionally, those dealers who do place big bets on hype (the ones you see on instagram with 20 116500LNs and 5711s etc) are in tight spots with COVID and an oil crash placing great pressures on the market. Those watches that placed value in hype (like most new watches that sell above retail) lack the true depth of rarity and of varying condition like vintage watches do and have seen a big correction in the past few weeks.

 

If that was your strategy, you would have missed out on some of the biggest gains in the vintage watch world. Many watches that are now worth a lot of money, were initially unloved and had no prior "history of retaining value".

No one has a crystal ball, so if you are going to really "invest" in watches, you should be doing it with money you can afford to burn...