They may be an investment for the top 0.1% who buy high value watches to park their cash- but I don’t think anyone can predict how other watches will hold value for the 99.9% of other people. Right how and until they find a vaccine, they are useless pieces of clutter. For 10 days now in Paris I have stopped wearing watches and rings as they are germ banks and impair the efficacy of hand washing which should include the wrist. Also and by the way, your rings will hold and spread germs if you don’t take them off AND wash them too every time you wash your hands. Someone published an well informed article to that effect in the coronavirus thread, and it is quite obviously right as it matches the rules in hospitals and even the one posted for employees in my company restaurant.
You are quite correct in saying that our watches are assets but that doesn’t necessarily translate to investments, as the OP asks. I am definitely one of the “don’t care/don’t plan to sell” brigade that you refer to. Do I get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that each of my watches is (currently) worth more than I paid for it? - yes, of course I do, that’s just human nature. but the ‘return’ for me is the enjoyment of owning and wearing my watches, not the differential between what I paid and what they are worth. A collectible as an investment can be a very fickle bedfellow. Some years ago, I used to collect a particular form of Art Deco china, buying at boot fairs and flea markets. the prices rocketed because the Japanese discovered the stuff and bought big style. this meant my collection was worth many, many, times more than I paid. When the bottom fell out of the Japanese economy, so too did the value of the china. But because I bought it to enjoy, not to speculate, the value was unimportant. when I eventually shuffle off my mortal coil, my watches will be given away to friends and family (the list is attached to my will and updated with every new watch purchase) What they then do with the watches is entirely up to them. They can realise the asset for its worth at that time, or keep it as a memento and enjoy it like I did. the moral of the story, buy stuff because you like it. If it goes up in value, great, but don’t rely on it, because there are no guarantees in the collectibles world.
^This is true, always has been and will be regardless of COVID-19, at least when it comes to microorganisms such as bacteria, protozoa etc. Indeed, as medics we are required to remove rings and watches most of the time when interacting with patients. However, while viruses - like the novel CoV - can certainly linger on surfaces (rings, watches, doorknobs, spoons), unless you are sticking the ring / watch in your mouth, nose or eye, it's unlikely to make any difference. Viruses, being basically proteic boxes with bits of DNA inside them, do not move, multiply or spread by themselves while on a surface (unlike bacteria etc). They need other (living) cells to replicate. That is not to say that one shouldn't take measures. But especially in these troubled times it may help (psychologically) to enjoy ones hobbies and, indeed, possessions -- however meaningless and fleeting and outside of our control they may be. Keep in mind that the number of microorganisms living in and on us normally is about as high as our own cells, and these are largely benign for most of us, so that they tend to gather a bit more under rings and watches is not so bad provided one showers regularly As for SARS-CoV-2 -- it will likely be with us from now on anyway, so if you want to, wear your watch without worry. Of course if you prefer not to, that's fine as well of course. What I meant to say is, not all germs are alike
Indeed, if we can manage to keep up social distancing (better yet, isolation) as much as possible, we may be able to prevent too high a number of simultaneous (severe) cases. The virus is here to stay anyway, and sooner or later we'll all catch it. But I digress and I apologize for that, this is not the covid thread. Back on topic: I doubt a watch can ever be a truly safe investment, too many variables. A gold brick is probably a better idea. My view on watch values increasing is sellers are playing on the increase in popularity of vintage - any vintage - as many new or casual (or even veteran) buyers are keen to find that "rare thrift find". Perceived heritage plays a big part as well, I think, it's why vintage Tudor (and, to some extent, vintage Omega and Longines, and later UG et al. shot up enormously in the past 5 years or so).
This conversation should be bundled with the nefarious Rolex Cult vs Omega good guys in white Stetsons threads and set to remain at the top of the list in perpetuity. How many times do they each show up, and how many times will the same cast of characters make the same remarks? There will always be a group that insists watches are never to be considered investments, (incorrectly) a group that believes they can be investments but not good investments because they are just watches, right? How can any good without intrinsic value be in demand when the four horsemen are unleashed? (News Flash: NOTHING other than things to eat, wear, defend oneself with, medicines, and shelter will be worth anything at that point.) Gold is just as silly as luxury wristwatches if we're at the end of humanity/civilization. But this isn't the end of the world. This virus will do extensive damage to populations and economies then it will become part of the disease landscape, probably for a very long time. Hand washing will become much more regular. Stockpiling toilet paper and some other things will linger. We may even continue to spend more time in our homes and less out among groups of people. But people will still collect generally frivolous trinkets, and many of those trinkets will maintain or increase in value. When will interest in watches wane? No one can know, but I am betting most of the watches I buy will continue to appreciate during my lifetime. I buy mostly vintage that I find pleasing and that I believe will be good investments. Some of you just hate that notion for some reason. I won't bore anyone with the gains over 20 or 30 years...sometimes in just a few years. And I don't need Chrono24 to tell me what my things are worth. Bottom line: Watches, like most things, can be excellent investments if you buy with an eye toward investing. Should everyone buy watches as investments? That is up to the individual. Of course markets change. How many of your friends are heavily invested in horse drawn carriages or river boats? Yet those investments would have been excellent for Mark Twain’s contemporaries. Now off to take part in the ultimate passive-aggressive exercise in social media: strategically placing (or more importantly, not placing) "LIKES".
Phil just checking I'm still down for the Seamaster Chronograph? You know I've always appreciated it.
....... Does this mean that I haven't got to reduce my old Speedmaster by another 'fakkin' five grand? It seems to have dropped so far in value, that I was thinking of sending it to my Missus. She's 11,000 ft up in the Andes, with her family, at the moment. She might get a couple of bucks for it in Peruvian street market!
Even prior to this current economic meltdown, what held value in the world of watches changed depending on the tastes of who was buying the watches. My collecting focus has always been American watches and pocket watches, specifically those made by Hamilton. In the 1980s and 1990s, railroad grade pocket watches and small, gold-filled, early Art Deco and 1940s tank watches were hot commodities. Now, they are largely overlooked by younger collectors (I feel like I'm the only Millennial who buys them ). I have a first edition 1980 copy of "The Complete Guide to American Pocket Watches," by the eponymous Cooksey Shugart. It lists your run of the mill Hamilton 950 pocket watch (a very fine 23 jewel railroad grade watch) for around $400ish in average condition. The 2018 edition (sadly the last) lists it for around $500-600. Not a significant investment over 40 years. The price really just rose with inflation. Things like the rise of the internet made them more common than people had previously thought and many Baby Boomers with large numbers of them flooded the market with their collections after they retired or died making them even more common. In addition, modern collectors don't want anything to do with them, or anything with the words American, gold or pocket in them. They want Swiss, steel and sport, for now at least...
The only investment value I glean from my watches is tied up in the visual enjoyment I extract when I glance down to read the time.
If it did make sense to diversify your investments into watches, it wouldn't make sense until you've established positions in stocks, bonds, cash, and real estate. Just as the best investments in those categories are what could be called 'trophy assets', the same applies to collectibles. Scarcity and condition are key, as is demand. You would be best served to stick to an iconic brand like Rolex, but vintage Omega will do. It's probably more appropriate to view this 'investment' as a store of value rather than an investment, though. Your watch purchase will never pay you, and there's a decent chance that you'll never sell it, in which case you'd never profit. On the bright side, following the rule the you should Never Invest In Anything You Don't Understand shouldn't be an obstacle around here. That said, some very knowledgeable watch collectors are right here sharing the opinion that it's not a great idea. That's my two cents on investing. I already have two I'm afraid to wear and don't find it especially rewarding.
Experienced collectors generally know enough to buy good watches at good prices when they have the opportunity, and their collections probably represent pretty solid assets in the aggregate. Most collectors also buy, sell, and trade occasionally, which also gives them a more realistic view of value. I'm not suggesting that watches are going to beat the yields of other asset classes, but in the long run, a collection of really desirable watches is probably going to retain significant value. On the other hand, if someone has to rely on Chrono24 for valuation, and has little first-hand experience in selling, then it's not clear they would know enough to buy the right watches at the right prices. The value of less desirable watches could easily drop precipitously.
no offense intended to anyone, but good god, this is the funniest shit I have read in weeks thank you, I needed a good laugh !
lol, seriously ? oh right, you must be a much better judge of my intentions than I am, I'll be sure to check back with you regularly so that you can keep me accurately informed
In no way wishing to sound smug, according to Chrono24 (and I certainly appreciate it’s prices are not totally representative) my 2018 Ultraman is now worth 53% more than I paid for it. Would never let it go but it’s one in the eye to the “watches aren’t investments” naysayers brigade. Maybe some (but not all) watches might be viewed as the new safe havens after all?
You said that already, yesterday at around 8.59pm in fact, except it doesn't stack up too well when you look at it closely. You don't sound smug, you sound over optimistic. The UM sold at retail for £4,750. They sit unsold for weeks at £6K and shift currently at nearer £5,500. Well done you made a few quid but I make it more like 15-20% so not sure where your higher figure is coming from unless you were able to nick one at £3.5K that is! ps before you sneer and accuse me of talking them down be aware I have one too so have been keeping an eye on resale.
