I have been looking at the Weishi Watch Timing Tester Machine Multifunction Timegrapher NO.1900 I am interested in checking some of my watches. Just so I know what is up with the watch after a service. All I plan on using it for is checking the watch I do not plan on doing any adjustments At least not for the near future maybe one day.
Any thoughts?

 

I have the Ace Timer No. 1000. Very happy with it. Inexpensive.

 

Have you ever seen advice given on a watch forum to not look over your brand new watch with a 10X loupe, because you will see things that you can't "unsee"?

Using a timing machine is the 10X loupe equivalent for movement performance. It is likely to raise more questions than answers, in particular if you don't know how to use it properly or interpret the results.

Not saying you shouldn't get one, but if you the least bit OCD, just realize it may cause some stress...

Cheers, Al

PS - these cheap machines do have some drawbacks, so aside from not the best construction, they are very susceptible to ambient noise (so a quiet room is required), and will not give accurate balance amplitude readings for co-axial watches, if that's important to you.

 

I recommend you this open source software: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/open-source-timing-software-2542874.html

With a webcam and a clamp:







It just works. The nice thing is that it is designed to work with bad microphones, such as iphone headphones, webcams, laptop microphones, etc.

 

Al
Thanks for the tips and reply
I know the machine I mentioned is not the greatest for timing watches. However In the not too distant future I would like to tinker around with some old clunker pocket watches I have.
I do not plan on doing anything major just putz around in my spare time. I figure the machine will help with tinkering around or cause more issues than it's worth.

 

Thanks I will check it out

 

Such a funny answer.. I understand that if you're not qualified watchmaker you should NEVER use such complicated device. Otherwise your life is going to be like hell. A watch is just a watch, @voere is an adult and I hope he's not going to die when he realizes that is watch is 3s/day early...

I bought a cheap ace 1000 to my 75 y.o. father in law who's a retired Omega watchmaker to compare to his own one and he told me that it's working as well as the $3000 one he kept after retirement.. and believe me his house is extremely noisy especially when about 30 clocks ring at the same time.

 

Of course this bears no resemblance at all to what I said, but if such gross misrepresentations make you feel good, hey be my guest.

The answer may be funny to you or not, however it comes from experience in seeing collectors get concerned or disappointed about timing results they don't understand. Over the years I have instructed many on how to properly take readings and interpret them - there are examples on this forum if you look.

I can't speak to your experience with the ace timer, and for the work you do it may be fine, but it is far from a professional grade machine - no watch brand I know considers these acceptable if you are applying for a parts account. The crystals are not aged the same as the professional machines are typically, and as noted they lack specialized software for other escapements.

I have one of these cheap machines that I keep as an emergency back-up in the event my machine has a fault - the place I bought the machine from will typically send me a loaner machine, but that takes time, so this is "better then nothing." I can at least use it to continue work until a loaner machine arrives for final timing before a watch goes back to a customer. There is absolutely no doubt it is more susceptible to room noises than the Witschi is. If the cheap machine is fitted with a gain control, you can resolve some of that by turning the gain down, but it can't be eliminated in my experience, and the noise issue is a well known problem.

Cheers, Al

 

I interpret Archers response / concerns with buying this instrument as for the inexperienced, non-mechanically minded individual, it will create unnecessary amounts of stress. If you don't know how to work it or interpret the results, it will only give unneeded worry. If you are a hobbyist / wannabe watchmaker like me and not afraid to dig in (and learn), it is a perfect start.

 

Indeed, my Timegrapher + Pahawi opener have given me great satisfaction.

 

If you have a few mechanical watches, and are properly aware of your own skill limitations then yes definitely get one. If you are the obsessive type, you may never sleep again though.....

Useful for:-
1. Understanding how your watch performs in different positions/levels of wind to help you set it to "self regulate"
2, Checking how good a job was done in that expensive service you just paid for in terms of adjustment and regulation.
3. If you're so inclined and have sufficient (and justified) confidence in your ability, to regulate your watches yourself, although anything with a free sprung balance is going to be beyond the skill (and toolset) of anyone but the most experienced amateur. Trying to regulate a watch without one is simply hit and miss, and extremely difficult to average out positional errors.

What they aren't useful for in amateur hands:-
1. Diagnosing problems, apart perhaps from figuring that it may be dirty, magnetised or well in need of a service.

Examples:-
1. The old Rolex advice about how to rest your watch to get it to gain/lose slightly may have been reliable when it was made, but most of my own watches don't comply with it !
2. A few months ago, my co-axial Railmaster came back from service supposedly regulated, but well outside of what it should be. This was from a highly recommended authorised Omega service agent in the UK. Returned it (it also had another fairly obvious problem which hadn't been dealt with, but nothing to do with the timing.) It did take them nearly 2 months to fix it, and it was returned as just being "regulated" but without the machine I would not have been able to identify the issue so easily.
3. I have quite a few older and/or less expensive watches which even after being serviced or factory fresh may not be regulated the best way for my wearing habits. A careful touch-up can get them much better. No, I don't mess with modern Omegas or Rolexes - there would be no point anyway, but movements like Miyotas and Seikos are easy to get much better, and in cheaper watches it seems partly to be the lack of fine regulation which cuts their costs. Don't try it on watches you are going to presume are still waterproof though, and be careful about the environment where you open and work on them. ***

These cheap machine obviously have their limitations, but they go far enough for a competent amateur to find them useful. They aren't fully featured professional machines and don't pretend to be.

*** If you are going to open a watch,dust is one of your major headaches. As clean and dust-free environment as you can, and use a blower before you close the watch. The sticky rubber ball openers are brilliant on anything other than the tightest factory closed watches, and avoid the risk of scratches. Without proper tools - and I don't mean just a case knife - clip back watches can be very tricky to open without damage and many of them need a press to close them again. I've never opened a front opening watch. I don't have the tools,and think I'd leave that to a professional anyway.

I regulated the Seiko I'm wearing at the moment (6r15 movement) soon after I got it. I set it 4 days ago by time.gov and it is still on the dot. That is better than any of the Rolex or Omegas I have.....

Obviously everything you do inside a watch is at your own risk

 

If you are interested, I'll sell you mine. I've barely used it.

 

I have a friend who needs one. If the price it right, I might purchase and donate to him.

 

Lots of fun putting your WWI pin-lever escapement watch on and seeing the positional error and wondering how the darn thing ends up working as well as it does! Mine keeps time better than 30 seconds per day on the wrist.

Tom

 

You would be surprised how often positional errors will cancel out, and result in a good rate on the wrist - one of the reasons why people are surprised when they put a watch on the timer that runs well, and find it has all kinds of variation...

 

Exactly. I now know that his intent has gone from "checking some of my watches" to eventually "tinkering" with some pocket watches put things in a slightly different light. Still doesn't mean there isn't knowledge required to use the machines properly.

If you have done watch repair/tinkering without a timing machine, getting one can be humbling as Francois has posted in another thread recently. I am by no means trying to discourage people from doing work on their own watches - if you read this forum at all that should be clear I would hope...

Cheers, Al

 

Buying a timing machine is indeed an ambivalent decision! As I said in the post Al was refering to, I do not regret my buying, but at the begining I had a big surprise! Long story short: I was not at all doing the job as good as I thought...

Personaly, it has been a very good decision, because it conducted me to get a fresh start at servicing and adjusting a watch. I have improved a lot with my timegrapher and I am still improving (thanks Al and Chris!). Now I would recommand any committed watchmaking amateur to buy one.

But if I could not use my timachine to (try to) correct issues and improve I am not sure I would have been so happy! You see (when you understand the machine) more issues than good news!

If it is to check your watches and the quality of the services you got (but it is not that easy to do), I guess that is fine. But as Al said you will probably found out that many "acurate" watches you were proud to own only compensate huge positional variations...

I would not adwise the tinkering beginer to get a timegrapher - would be too harsh to discover the first watches you did not destroyed have a 5 minutes positional error and a 9.9 beat error... I am not so sure I would adwise that to a pure collector either. Unless he is ready for some disappointments...

You were proud of your + 3 average rate above a week? Well your watch has a 40 sec positional variation and is only wonderfully regulated!

Actually it is not a big deal for reasonable persons - but are we?

 

I have a ace timer and in a quiet room it is every bit as accurate as the more expensive machines. It doesnt have a print out if you need one but, it serves its purpose. As far as knowing how to read one, it takes about 5 minutes to watch a youtube video to tell you about amplitude, beat error and how to read the dots that form the graph. Correcting those problems in the movement is another story..

 

Well, I am happy with that since I have a cheap time machine as well!

But the wishi have many interesting options, one of them being the possibility to see graphs about what´s going on on the escapement. And when I see Al ´s pics of his wishi, I cannot help thinking it is more precise for fine adjustments.

I would like to add that, in order to use correctly your time grapher, you also need to understand the lift angle and how it permits to calculate the amplitude. And if you want to use it as a tool to adjust or correct your watch, you need to know many other things.

But I agree that the big deal is to MAKE the corrections and adjustments!

 

If you believe all that - then more power to you mate.