Hi Guys,

I have for a while been seeking to buy a vintage Speedmaster and been aiming for a 105.012 or earlier. I was offered the following watch and I wanted to double check my sitings and that I made the right decision to turn it down. Learn, learn and learn.

No box and no documentation besides a service made in 2010 with receipt.

In that service document of 2010 it states the following:
- Service of movement
- Some parts of the movement exchanged
- New Crown
- New Pushers
- New hands
- New crystal
- New Dial/bezel
- Polish
- Pressure test

The parts exchanged on the watch is included on the side, se images.

Price offered: 8.500 USD

Let's get right to the pictures:









Parts included on the side:



At first I was thinking that I would basically just need to put the old parts back in to make it correct. However, I noticed the following:

Hands
On the watch: Correct, but new
Hands on the side: The "old" hour and minute hands are not as pointy as they should (what are these?) and that the "old" chrono is a square end spear and not a spear with rounded end.

Dial
One the watch: As per last service, dial was changed. This is worng as it by the looks if ut does not have a step and there are no T markings.
On the side: By the looks of it seems like a service dial.

Movement
Is in the correct range for a 105.012-66 (based on speedmaster101) but it could also be a 142.012-67. An extract would let us know.

Bezel
On the watch: New, not DON post 1990
On the side: Correct DON bezel but with smaller dents. Personally I like more faded print than bump.

Case
Hard to see the typical CB facet lines, are most likely be gone after polish, however I do feel the form of the case is more in line with a HF than CB. Is my assumption wrong?

Back case
I think it looks good, maybe too good to be that old?

Bracelet
Later version speedmaster bracelet, not correct

Conclusion
Franken watch, not what I am after. It's value is equal with the parts.

Views?

 

Outside the chrono hand it looks good...

I’d value it below good minus the service to put it original and a correct crown, and hand.

 

There’s a lot to unpack here.

The case isn’t a great CB case. Some of the lugs don’t really show the expected ledge.


On the other hand, the case back is pretty nice. The pushers are service.


The old dial is right but most of the lume is gone.


The old bezel is real nice.

The old hands are not great and I suspect they were service hands.

I’d put the old bezel back on but leave the rest as is. There are advantages to a luminova 321.

Having said all that, I now also acknowledge that I have such a luminova CB and I love it



The only thing I did to mine, an eBay find, was to put a luminova leaf tailed chrono hand on it. It came with that bezel, believe it or not. I paid $5.5 earlier this year.

I think $8k is high. The bracelet and old parts make the deal, but maybe $6k+.

 

Thinking in spare part values, I would buy it, knowing there has a lot of work to be done, unless you are intending to sell the parts separately.

The case has been polished, but could be refinished in a better way. Caseback looks good, though polished as well. The most important original part, the dial, looks ok and can be remounted.

Original DON bezel (maybe you should keep it ?), hands, bracelet and the other service parts could be sold to raise some funds for buying better / correct ones.

 

At least it comes with the original parts, which equate to about 1/3 or 1/4 of the asking price or so.

However, I'd prefer a killer 861 - a -68 or - 69 - at that price, personally.

 

That last pic does show remnants of the facets on the lower two lugs. Are the pushers correct?

Wooops, I din't realize I was looking at a different watch.

 

Washed dial, polished case, dented bezel, wrong sweep hand. There is really nothing nice about it. If it were all assembled with the original parts, I don't think people would be recommending that the OP buy it at $8.5k. There are no bones nice enough to justify an investment.

 

AVOID. This watch is dead.

 

Why?

It comes along with a lot of matching vintage essentials, that are in good condition.

 

I wouldn't do it personally, as I'd rather pay 20% more for a fully original, well sorted example. Taking the "budget" route is the most often repeated mistake that I see people make in the hobby (if they don't have to)

Do the subdials looks weird to anyone else? It could totally be the lighting, but the base of the sub-dial almost looks raised or puffy, and all of the 105.012's that have passed through my hands look more like this beautiful CB that I never should have sold :

 

That dial is good? It’s washed. All lume gone.
Plus in case you haven’t noticed this is a CB case. They polished all of the CB-ness off of it..
Add another $1,200 for a correct flat foot crown and and fat neck pushers.. Not even mentioning the 1039/516 bracelet...
A very expensive restoration project for a not so good end result...

 

Yes, I fully agree basically.

But as I said: Thinking in spare part values, the price is ok.

And driven by emotion and the will of restoring it, you won't be disappointed later on, because these watches can be considered as an investment.

That said, for the latter, I think this watch is a good base to start from.

Perfect pieces are getting more and more unobtainable.

 

You can't restore the CB case facets once polished off to that degree.
The midcase id dead.
The DON bezel looks like it was bit by a Pitbull.
Washed dial.
Flaked hands. (later chrono hand).
Wrong crown & pushers.

With the amount of money needed to "Restore" this piece (and there is really no way if even bringing it back to acceptable condition) I would avoid this project.

And again, as the number one rule in buying vintage says:

It is always better to overpay for a stellar example than buying a mediocre one "on the cheap"...

 

All true.

What do you think this watch would be worth sold in parts?

 

Bezel is at least $2.5k. Some bad dings but the printing is nearly entirely intact.
Movement is underpriced at $2.5k in case there are issues. It’s the right serial number for a CB
Dial is at least $1.5k. It looks okay other than the lume loss. It can be relumed.
Caseback is at least $1.0k. Somebody’s got a CB with a gouged up back.
Hands maybe $400
Bracelet another $400

I maybe off here or there, but still Adds up to around $8k in parts. And I’m writing off the mid case.

If you think I’m far off in my estimates, I’d love to hear.

 

Value = 0.00 $?

No. I think it will be around 1k as well.

 

What’s the point in adding up the value if none of the parts are good enough to keep? So you sell them all and hope to break even? With a lot of effort and risk? Makes no sense.

 

Well for me, I would rather not have the bumps and instead have less good print but we are all different

Personally I agree here, I'm not in it to earn money or put a lot of time in to buying/selling the right stuff. However I'm not in need of a collectors watch. I am after a watch that I can feel good about wearing and not be afraid to use.

 

The separate hands look different to what I am used to see on Speedmasters. What are they? Not genuine, right? I have tried to find more information about the hands but not been successful.

 

Yes, that's a replacement handset. The tip of the hands are way more flat that original Speedmaster hands. They could be from Mark II's?