Perhaps this is a question for Al, or one of the professional watchmakers on the forum. I'm a very serious amateur, and have had about enough of my $40 ultrasonic with assortment of pasta jars full of home brew cleaning solutions (based on the old recipes in the classic watchmaking texts).

This past weekend I was trying to service a simple manual wind mechanical movement. I keep the parts separated into basic groups, as I've yet to acquire a set of screw together parts baskets. So after about 45 minutes I finally had cycled through all of the movement parts and had everything nicely drying on kim wipes on my desk. As I went to assemble everything I noticed a fine white film coating most of the parts. Not what you want to see on a just "cleaned" watch. Perhaps it's time for a fluid change, or perhaps I needed a parts heater or more attention with the blower and loupe. It took me a further 2 hours to meticulously scrub the movement clean with some Rodico and Pegwood. A frustrating experience to say the least.

It got me thinking about getting some proper equipment and looking at the automatic watch cleaning machines by the likes of Greiner and Elma, as well as some of the old ones by L&R. I think if I'm going to get one, I'd like it to be fully automatic. But these machines run from $3k-13k depending on just how fancy they get.

I'm on a pretty tight budget. But then again I just dropped nearly 2k on a proper Witschi Watch Expert II because I couldn't stand the look of my ugly Chinese Timegrapher and felt that if I was going to be fixing up vintage project watches for sale, I ought to upgrade to some proper kit--or at least that's how I justified the purchase.

I've done the right thing with my other tools and have acquired quality vintage stuff or slowly but surely accumulated first rate tools, but short of scouring the bay for years waiting for a lightly used Elma RM 90 to pop up, what's a guy to do? Should I get over it and go back to Naptha. Should I just buy a set of cleaning baskets and some Zenith fluids for my $40 ultrasonic? As an amateur doing this for fun (any profits have long since been spent on new tools acquired last year), I'm okay with things taking me a while to do properly (ie, oiling), but I'm not really okay with wasting my time, which is exactly what my movement cleaning experience this past weekend felt like.

Any ideas? Anyone with an old Tempo 400 sitting in the corner getting dusty? I'd lust after your Greiner ACS 900s and your Elma RM 90s.

 

Al would be the best person to give you some profesional advice.
I'm currently using one of those el cheapo ultrasonics with Zenith Cleaning fluid. Once done there i dunk my basket (made from a fine tea strainer and some memory wire handles) into a jar of Shellite and jiggle it to remove the cleaner, and then into a cleaner jar of Zenith cleaning solution (Zenith Drizebrite).
I then hang the basket in front of a hair dryer (which I borrow from someone who doesn't know I do ) set to low speed/low heat.

I recently scored an LR type cleaning machine (3 jar) and a Boley type lathe for $192 and I'm in the process of restoring them to useable condition, the power cords were the old rubber insulated/cloth wrapped type from the 30s, areas of stress were actually showing bare wire!!!!

 

"I then hang the basket in front of a hair dryer (which I borrow from someone who doesn't know I do ) set to low speed/low heat."

Say, now I've got one of those blowers in the house. It's in a strange part of the cabinet filled with all sorts of brushes and foreign (to me) hair concoctions.

 

Yep, that's the one you need. Just wait 'till 'someone' goes to the gym, or give 'someone' some money, they'll head stright off on a shopping trip.
You can then borrow your 'parts dryer'.
Just remember to wipe all of the gunk off it before you put it back though

 

I use the Elma Super Elite and I think it does the job perfectly well for the sort of low volume operation you are talking. It has just been superceeded so I guess there would be bargains to be had if you found somewhere that had one in stock - the replacement one is about 40% dearer. It is manual, but the whole operation takes a maximum of 15 minutes, so there is no great hardship involved.

 

To go "fully automatic" as you have stated, it's going to be expensive. Your best bet is likely an older machine, and like the Super Elite that was mentioned, the RM90 was also just upgraded to a newer version, so some of the older RM90 machines may pop up on the market.

An old Tempo 400 would be a great machine if you can find one in good condition - nice small jars means you can change fluids often and not create a lot of waste.

Otherwise I would be looking for a manual machine that has multiple jars, and a built in heater. Some of the old Watch Master WT machines are good, or an L&R Vari-Matic. Here is a place that services and sells these machines - I've never dealt with them so I can't comment on what they are like to deal with:

http://www.timemachinerepair.com/index.html

What you need for small volumes is a machine that cleans well, and not one that is automatic really. For me an automatic machine is a must, because I load the baskets, turn on the machine, and go back to the bench to keep working while the parts are being cleaned. For you, this really isn't an issue for productivity.

By the way, I see you mentioned "Rodico" and "cleaning" in the same sentence. Those 2 things really don't go together. Now the pendulum on these things does swing back and forth, and right now Rodico is on the "big no-no" list with most brands, although they are far from being consistent in their policies. For example while at Swatch for training we were told Omega does not allow the use of Rodico, and if we had it, we need to keep in in the drawer and not use it. Not a problem for me personally. But when one guy in the class asked about doing something on a Longines modular chronograph, the instructor said "You take a piece of Rodico and...." Now it was a small class of 5 people, and we all have good hearing, so the question was asked why he was suggesting using Rodico when it was made very clear that we could not use it. He said that "Longines allows it, but Omega does not." Hmmmm...okay...

If used properly, it's not too bad, and can be useful in some cases. However if you roll it in your fingers, using it more than once, etc. it is likely spreading more dirt and oil than it is removing. If you have "cleaned" plates with Rodico, they really need to be run through the cleaning machine again. I personally use A*F "Rub Off" (the blue stuff) if I am going to use anything like a Rodico product. It does not absorb oil or leave a film behind like Rodico can (and yes both types of Rodico are bad for this).

I remove a piece just large enough to remove whatever hair of spec of dust I am dealing with, use it, then immediately toss it in the garbage. I do sometimes use of for cleaning say the o-ring groove in a case, and for that it does a good job.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Al

 

Quite helpful, as usual, Al. Interesting to hear your comments about the Rodico, which I use as a generic term for any of the stuff (kind of like offering a Kleenex, or a Coke, when in fact it may not be the actual trademarked product).

Sort of sounds like more Swiss meddling with independent watchmakers (ie, to attempt to dictate a policy rather than simply educating that used Rodico transmits dirt and oil where it's not wanted). When used properly, it is excellent stuff for removing a spec of dust or soaking up a little over ambitious oiling. As I am working on my office desk, the environment is certainly not as dust free as I would like. I always toss the dirtied piece of "Rodico" after servicing the watch. I'll look into the AF rub off product. At the supply houses near me it has the added advantage of being a bit cheaper than the brand name Rodico too.

Let me know if you should ever want to upgrade your Elma unit, Al. I'd be happy to take it off your hands for a reasonable price.

 

Update: I've located a vintage Bulova Watchmaster Mark II that should be arriving sometime this week. All of the cups are included and the unit looks to be complete except for the little parts baskets, which I will have to acquire. By the looks of the pictures, the machine can use some external cleaning, so I'll have to do a bit of restoration to get her looking her best.

Still on the look out for a nice automatic or modern machine... at the right price, of course.

 

Watchmaster Mark II for sale $450 / contact Ken / 630-859-2887

 

Five years, bro. Five years.