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Vintage Watches that really cannot be fixed?

  1. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Dec 1, 2018

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    A relative of mine has an heirloom watch which he tried to get fixed- but he says it still doesn’t keep time despite having been serviced.
    Also the dial was refinished— and he had it redone again— in my opinion really badly.

    I’d like to encourage him to restore it properly, find a donor watch, get a good dial and proper service with an independent watchmaker.
    But I’m sure the cost would be at least around 600 USD (in the US) and for most people that is a lot of money just to repair a watch.

    I’d like to think any vintage watch that’s not especially rare can be fixed by a good watchmaker, and that his jeweler just didn’t have the right people.

    But I also don’t want to push him into an expensive repair if at the end of the road there’s a possibility — even slight— that the watch could remain a lemon.

    So here’s my question: have you encountered many watches which cannot, and will not keep time after being serviced and repeatedly tended to by a talented and trustworthy watchmaker? Ie that remain irredeemable lemons?

    Let’s assume we’re talking about a workhorse time-only movement from the 1920s to the 1970s which has been produced in large numbers and has no complication.

    This one is a 1950s Longines probably equipped with a 22A automatic movement.
    Pictures below.
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/heirloom-watch-help-identify.85735/

    Thanks much for your thoughts,
    Best regards
    S
     
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  2. M'Bob Dec 1, 2018

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    It's seems to be either an issue of cost, or talent. Sometimes it's just not financially worth it; other times, even if your watchmaker is talented, you need another set of eyes on it that could potentially catch something the first person missed. This happens all the time...no one is perfect.
     
  3. S.H. Dec 1, 2018

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    It is easy to f*ck up a watch : for example if the hairspring has been badly bent, it can be tricky (or not really possible) to bring it back. Also, sometimes, dirty tricks has been employed: more than once, I saw wrong hairsprings, or even wrong balance wheels , being used as repairs (and I don't count the times where a wrong mainspring was used). I even found once double sided sticky tape in a watch, some guys are creative: it can be very hard to track down what has been done to a watch.

    So you end up with a watch which can't be regulated. If the movement is modern and well known it is somewhat easy : just buy the relevant parts and it will be ok. But if the movement cannot be identified, or the parts can't be found, you may be stuck; I have some aces up my sleeve but they don’t work every time. I once had to service a 1900 or so woman's unidentified cylinder watch with a wrong hairspring, beating a healthy... 21600bph, instead of 18000: what am I supposed to do with this (for less than 250 eur)? I gave it back serviced but unregulated, no charge. In theory is it doable, in practice, not so much.
     
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  4. Fritz genuflects before the mighty quartzophobe Dec 1, 2018

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    Anything can be fixed within reason. It all comes down to cost and finding the right watch maker. I have one watch that had a small fortune invested in it repair but never ran right. A far more talented man had a crack at it, four times, and it’s finally the fine timekeeper it was meant to be again. So if it’s worth it and you know a man with talent,go for it. But the possibly of falling into a bottomless money pit that looses five minutes a day is always there.
     
  5. ChrisN Dec 1, 2018

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    Interested to know what you mean by "doesn't keep time". Is it stopping or has low power reserve, for example? Or is it losing a minute a day?

    Cheers, Chris
     
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  6. jimmyd13 Dec 1, 2018

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    I've never had a watch that couldn't be brought back to life. That's a very broad statement, though. I've got one very early pocket watch that's sitting in a drawer because of the cost involved in repairing it (and the scarcity of people who are willing to take it on).

    That said, I have a couple of early 20th century wristwatches that don't keep time well. I have no doubt that the issue with both is the balance spring and the only option will be to have one cut to size. Again, the problem is that the watchmaker I would have taken these to has retired and I'm not really willing to pay the cost of the repair on a watch that won't be worn regularly or recoup the cost on resale. I know that sounds mercenary but I am talking about three watches from ... a lot, and sometimes head must rule heart.
     
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  7. Vitezi Dec 1, 2018

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. alam Dec 1, 2018

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    this watchmaker can bring back to life any pocket watch... :)
     
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  9. jimmyd13 Dec 1, 2018

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    It is so ...
    old_yeller_2_movie_collection_20060206040933654_000.jpg
     
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  10. jimmyd13 Dec 1, 2018

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    That particular watchmaker put me in touch with another who, in a short exchange of photos and text, told me more about 17th century watches than I'd read in months. That watchmaker offered to repair the watch but is in such demand that he can't look at it for another 8 months. While I love antiques and watches passionately, that was the conversation that made me think the waters of early horology run exceptionally still and deep.
     
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  11. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Dec 1, 2018

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    Thank you dear gentlemen for your thoughtful replies. I guess each case is specific and iagain good communication with the watchmaker is key.

    I must admit I did not ask that question. I’ll see if my relative shows any interest in the matter and ask the question if I have a chance.

    Thanks very much again,
    All the best,
    S
     
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  12. ConElPueblo Dec 2, 2018

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    Just to be clear - the guy in the YouTube-video directed you to a proper watchmaker??
     
  13. alam Dec 2, 2018

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    and curious myself, is the guy in the video a watchmaker?
     
  14. ChrisN Dec 2, 2018

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    I suppose @jimmyd13 is talking about Al @Archer and not the guy in the video.

    It's turning silly now - we would refer to him as a "Master Watchmaker":D:D

    Cheers, Chris
     
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  15. ChrisN Dec 2, 2018

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    If you offer to take the watch from them for a while, you can make the tests you're used to, such as wind many turns and leave dial up to check reserve. At least then you'll work out what to do next. I suspect it's already back in the drawer so they won't miss it.

    I find it sad that sometimes people have given up on their watch but, honestly, it is not uncommon outside of the watch collecting community to hear, "It's my late father's watch and I had it serviced but it is clearly beyond all hope as the jeweller couldn't fix it - I paid for the service but it stops all the time and {insert other annoying issue here}". Most of the time, it can be fixed but, it can take time to source the necessary parts for vintage an often undo someone else's "adjustments".

    If it is a Longines 22A, then parts availability is on a par with a '50s Omega bumper (at first glance). We all have contacts as well for parts that arr really hard to find.

    Cheers, Chris
     
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  16. jimmyd13 Dec 2, 2018

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    Dear sweet God in heaven, no!

    @Archer pointed me in the direction of a watchmaker in the UK who specialises in antique watches (pre-1800)
     
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  17. alam Dec 2, 2018

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    I feel...

    [​IMG]

    :)
     
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  18. Lowflight Dec 2, 2018

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    One of my favorite watches ever is the SInn 142. I had a beautiful example. It ran like a top, but I started getting worried. I called all over the country and even reached out to Sinn. Noone would touch it. So, I sold it. Parts aren't made anymore, and in the litigious world we live in it is nearly impossible to get a watchmaker to understand when you say " I understand the situation and don't hold you personally responsible." I sold the watch out of fear of being left with a $2000 paper weight.
     
  19. connieseamaster Dec 2, 2018

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    I have an Elgin electric watch where the movement was so bad, Elgin themselves recalled it about 2 years after it's release. It was working until about 3 years ago, but of course no one will attempt to fix it at this point. I keep it around because I love the dial and might want to put the dial on a different movement in the future
     
  20. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 2, 2018

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    Finally someone asked the right question! :)

    Some people want everything to run as well as a modern chronometer watch, and some are fine if it's within a minute or two a day, so knowing what the expectations are is critical.

    As I've said many times previously, how well any vintage watch will run after a service depends on how well it was made to begin with (so what it was capable of originally) and what condition it's in now.

    For example a small ladies cocktail watch with no seconds hand was not likely ever designed to keep chronometer like timing, so expecting that from it even if it's in pristine condition is not reasonable. On the other hand a watch that was initially a chronometer (and sometimes a good quality watch that wasn't) can be made to run like one if it's in decent shape.

    If it's in bad shape then the question becomes how easy can the parts required be obtained, and how much does the customer want to spend.

    Are there watches where the movement is so worn out that the only practical solution is to replace major parts or maybe even the whole movement? Yes certainly.

    Without knowing what the watch and movement is the OP is referring to, difficult to give a good answer for that specific situation.

    Cheers, Al
     
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