Hi everybody, I am not a rolex guy but an old woman showed me this submariner today. Her husband received it in 1965, but he recently passed away so she would like to sell the watch... I must tell her tomorrow if I am interested. I took some pictures with my phone, sorry for the quality. Thank you for your help.
this looks like a bit of a minefield, but i am not an expert... 1) can't tell from the photos, but is there a "swiss" marked beneath the chapter ring at 6 o'clock? if not, full stop right there... 2) the chapter ring looks shaky 2) dial and hands look relumed 3) non-PCG case - if i'm not mistaken, most chapter ring dials were married with PCG cases on the 5513 4) did you happen to snap a photo of the serial/could you provide the first few digits? PCG/chapter rings were generally earlier, if it was given as a gift in 1965 it's possible production was earlier, but that would be another tell 5) who knows what's going on inside...
It looks like it has a closed track around the minutes much like the 5512. Rolex did remove the close track on the 5513 however and this is only on the early first issues. The closed track looks awfully close to the chapter ring though. Outside off the closed minute track (underneath) almost the edge of the dial should read 'swiss' I can't see that. would you be able to remove the movement at all with dial and add a pic? It's hard to tell for sure but looks like an early 5513 from your pics. Could be a keeper!!
I've read that back and I've made no sense. Rolex did use the closed track on the minute markers in the 5513 but only on first issue examples much like the 5512. They then removed the closed track and just showed the minute markers. Yours has a closed track from what I can see which would make that a first issue 5513 (if correct)
I think I will pass. I opened the watch. Cal. 1530. Serial 1204xxx. Inside the caseback : 5513 I 65. BUT no swiss on the dial, I suppose it has been redone unfortunately... The watch does not look so bad after a good cleaning.
my father has always said, there’s no such thing as a bad car, only a bad price - same goes for watches! could be a fun project if the price is right?
The proper gilt dial along with hand set and insert will be expensive. If you add a matte service dial its a nice wearer. In my experience the parts to make it period correct in a semi collectors quality could be 10 to 15K if you can find the parts.
The font in 'ROLEX' is dead giveaway for a redial (compare it with the pic of the pristine example further up in the thread). However, it is an old redial, possibly in the 70s, as the dial seems pretty aged since. That said, and the scary looking gunk/rust on the back there notwithstanding, everything else is more or less the original... I wouldn't bother trying to find an original, never refinished, dial for this watch-pure unobtanium or just plain out of the pocket range of most of us mortals. If you're ok with the redial, try and bargain a tiny bit down, have it fully serviced and that awful gunk scraped off, and you have a nice, albeit never top collector quality, vintage old sub... P.S.: The insert is a later date issue as well (mk3? Or whatnot), but you could one day find a very patinated long 5 or a kissing 4 for under 2k, and call it a day.
I tried to get a better price but she refused, so I didn't buy it. I prefer to pay more for a correct example. She will show the watch to some Italian dealers soon.