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  1. Puch_sgs

    Puch_sgs Jul 11, 2019 5:23pm

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    Hi,

    I want to introduce myself to this forum. I am from Austria and own several modern watches Omega, Seikos etc.

    I recently bought two Omega Vintage military watches and wanted to ask for guidance on the originality of the watches, dials, fingers etc. Maybe in your group of experts someone could help me in veryfing whether the watches are what the claim to be and if the current layout is historical correct, as far as one can tell.

    1. US Army - watch came with following description: , stainless steel, number 109829xx, compensation balance, Breguet hairspring, black dial, Arabic numerals, luminous dots, center seconds, reference 2384-1, around 1946, diameter ca. 35 mm, 47.4 g,

    IMG_0192.PNG
    IMG_0188.PNG

    2. Royal Air Force - watch came with following description: stainless steel, lever movement, number 95707xx, caliber 30 T2, Breguet spiral, black dial, Arabic numerals, luminous dots, small second, case number 102555xx, around 1940, diameter ca. 37 mm, 42.1 g, partly spotted, abraded, scratched , parts added.

    IMG_0191.PNG

    What do you think of both? What would you do with them? Wear them with Patina, or fully restore them?
    Recommendations for the straps?

    Thanks,
    V
     
  2. Dan S

    Dan S Jul 11, 2019 5:58pm

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    Is it possible to return them?
     
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  3. KingCrouchy

    KingCrouchy Jul 11, 2019 6:02pm

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    Hello and welcome. Sadly both watches are horrible redials. I hope you didn't payed much.
     
  4. Joe K.

    Joe K. Curious about this text thingy below his avatar Jul 11, 2019 6:04pm

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    Both watches are not military. There are many issues that are pretty obvious. My recommendation would be to study carefully what genuine examples should look like before purchasing.
     
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  5. watchyouwant

    watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Jul 11, 2019 6:31pm

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    Oh dear...... Both completely wrong. Not only the dials. Give it back and threaten, to expose their names on collectors Fora, if the seller resist. It is a disgrace to label them the way, the sellers did
    Good luck ! Kind regards. Achim
     
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  6. Darlinboy

    Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Jul 11, 2019 6:52pm

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    The time to ask is before a purchase. Anyway hope you can get your money back, and if not, didn’t pay a large sum.
     
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  7. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 11, 2019 7:18pm

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  8. Puch_sgs

    Puch_sgs Jul 12, 2019 6:20pm

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    Hi all!

    Thanks for all your replies - although they were not very positive I really appreciate your straightforward feedback.

    Seems that my entrance in the world of Vintage Omegas did not start that well ;-)

    As it was an auction I do not see any chances for returning the watches.

    However it is as it is. I still like the idea of bringing them back in however form they should be. Maybe you can point me to information where I can find out which dials the watches should have - I really tried and funny enough I also tried before buying to find something on the internet to check whether they are originals, but as an inexperienced guy like me, it was not possible.

    Can I at least verify with the numbers, if such a watch was sold to US Army, or is it definitely a fake? (nr 1).
    For number 2 - I checked again the description and it said Aviation watch in the auction (so not necessarily Air Force - maybe I was interpreting this... ) can you tell me what is concretely wrong with the watch, dial etc?

    Overall it was a mistake - I see it clearly - but maybe I can at least gain some joy in researching how they should be and then to get them fixed...

    Thanks,
    V
     
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  9. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 12, 2019 8:15pm

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    The engraving on the back of #1 has the proper font. However, 10.9M serial is way to high for a US Army watch. This is likely a frankenwatch, made of parts of other watches.
    gatorcpa
     
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  10. Vitezi

    Vitezi Jul 12, 2019 8:23pm

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    That's the right attitude and approach. :thumbsup: There are many threads covering vintage military Omegas on this forum. Take some time to search them out and read them all (it's free). If military watches pique your interest, visit the Military Watch Resource forum. Buy a book or two on the subject.
     
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  11. X350 XJR

    X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Jul 12, 2019 8:24pm

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    ANY watch described as "military" should be taken with not just a grain of salt but a shaker full. The number of franken and outright fakes far outnumber the genuine ones. Military watches are hot right now so the fraudsters are going full speed to supply the market.
     
  12. Shay

    Shay Jul 13, 2019 2:43pm

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    Maybe before moving to Omega or IWC military watches you can look at the 1970’s watches Hamilton, CWC etc.. to build your knowledge. These watches are much cheaper and readily available. I found this website useful

    http://www.military-watches.net/#2855

    But the book referred by Vitezi is probably one of the best on military watches which I am looking to get.
     
  13. FlyingSnoopy

    FlyingSnoopy Jul 13, 2019 2:51pm

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    You can always return them as fakes since you got them at auction
    Good luck
     
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  14. Syrte

    Syrte Jul 13, 2019 2:56pm

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    What types of auctions? If it was an auction house you can obtain the annulment of the sale because the watches were misrepresented.
    In one word, they are FAKE.
    You are not going to be able to make them right.
    The first one has a fake dial— which is not a military dial.
    The second one is entirely fake, meaning it is not a military Omega- I don’t know if it’s an Omega at all, even.
    You can point the auction house to this thread, their reputation is going to be hurt if the sale is not annuled and they should be able to do it without a problem.

    PS edit/ add: it took me 8 months of reading and research to buy my first military Omega. You cannot just go out and buy a vintage watch before studying in depth how it is made, and what each part should look like.
    First you should read @ConElPueblo’s magnificent thread called “Learn how to fish” in the stickies.
    And second, the place for info on military watches is MWR (Military Watch Ressource Forum).
     
    Edited Jul 13, 2019 3:28pm
  15. Darlinboy

    Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Jul 13, 2019 3:46pm

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  16. aprax

    aprax Jul 13, 2019 5:40pm

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  17. Puch_sgs

    Puch_sgs Jul 14, 2019 3:48pm

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    Can someone please send or post a picture how the dial should look like.
    That's exactly the ones. I will try to talk to their expert in person next week, to understand why he came to his assessments.

    Thanks all of you for contributing. Let's see where it end, but as I already wrote, for me it is also very interesting to learn more about vintage Omegas and I am sure that at least one of my buys I will enjoy on my wrist after some changes.

    All comments on where I can source nice (probably new) dials for the watches are highly welcome.
    I now understand that the original dials is where the value of these watches is and that mine do not carry those - for me that's somehow ok as I am interested on how it eventually looks like, less whether the dial or fingers are originals. However I want to have a watch that is authentically restored. I am also wearing all my watches without any restrictions. any sources that sell new dials (copies) are also appreciated.

    P.S.: please do not start a price discussion as now the prices paid are known. For me it does not change anything and I am not a professional trader in watches, meaning that I am not in this for profit (and maybe this spares me from how big my mistakes where ;-)
     
  18. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 14, 2019 5:17pm

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    Unfortunately, there are no “new” dials for these watches. Omega has probably been out of stock on these for at least 50 years.

    With respect to the Ref. 2384, the lacquer on the original dials was flawed. As a result, many have orange toning which is a result of the radiation from the radium acting on the lacquer.

    I cannot speak to the black broad arrow dials.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa