Hello all,

I'll start with a few scans borrowed from the internet.



Over the last two decades of watch collecting, my interest has always been biased towards chronographs. I've noticed that interest for vintage chronographs has exploded over the last 4-5 years. During the calmer years, prices asked for chronographs equipped with cam switching and wire springs were much lower than chronographs powered by column wheel movements. Needless to say, my first few chronos were equipped with V7730 and Landeron 48 type movements. Most were not well known brands. They had attractive dial designs and all but I immediately noticed they were somewhat clunky to operate and felt...cheap in comparison with the much more expensive chronos with column wheel movements.

Today, finding decent chronographs with column wheel movements is much more difficult and all those off brand (and some better known) chronos with the ubiquitous V7733 or Landeron type cam switchers are plentiful at prices thought impossible not 5-6 years ago. Many of those watches could be had for a few hundred dollars. Today I see some of the same chronos go for thousands!

I'm curious to hear from chronograph collectors. Are prices for cam switchers justified? How much weight does the movement in a chronograph carry in your choice of chronograph at a given budget? For my part and for better or for worse, I may have developed movement "snobiness" but I can't get myself to acquire a chronograph with these type movements at asking prices today....

Thoughts?

 

While I am not a chronograph collector, I do own a small number, and have an interest in this topic.

First, I would say that like the broader vintage market, fashion plays a powerful role in the price appreciation of chronographs that we have seen in recent years. Which is to say that if they have pretty dials and look good on the wrist, the relative quality of the movements are unimportant to many of those who buy such watches.

Of course there is a subset of collectors who do emphasise movement quality, as well as beauty, and I fall into that category. Like the OP, I do prefer column-wheel designs, though I have heard and read some spirited defences of some of the better cam-based movements.

Given the current high values of better chronographs, I wouldn't consider buying one that did not feature a high-quality, attractive movement. This is not only because of my preference for them, but also because I believe that over time watches featuring such movements will maintain or reach higher values than the others.

 

Yes to the original question. I'm not really a chronograph collector as I only have two, but I like them a lot and I could easily have gone that way instead of focusing on Omega. My two are both Venus movements, a 178 in my Breitling Top Time 810 and a 188 in my L A Leuba. The Leuba was cheap, the Breitling was not (although it's beginning to seem quite reasoanble now). I'd like to add a Valjoux 72 and maybe a 22 one day if I see the right one at the right price.

Whether the cost of cam switchers is justified is obviously a matter of individual preference, but for me the answer's No. With pre-70s Omegas it's about the dial - you take the beauty of the movement for granted. For some chrono collectors it seems to be all about the name on the dial and the movement is irrelevant. One could argue that a Landeron 248 will probably keep as good time as a Valjoux 22 if properly adjusted, but I won't buy a Landeron even if it says Heuer on the dial. I think a supposed high-end watch should have something a bit better than a very run-of-the-mill movement. Ok they are not Lapanousse but I find them ugly compared to the Venus 188, which is perhaps daft as the only time I'll ever see the interior is at service time, but the inside matters to me and I like knowing that it's as pleasing as the outside. And yes the Venus 188 is a cam switcher but it's also IMO a looker. Mine's keeping time to within 4 secs a day so I can live with that. And I know the Valjoux 7733 is basically the 188 in another guise but that big chunky V just doesn't appeal to me.

 

I tend to not worry about the looks of something I don’t see. I care much more about reliability, ease of repair, and now more than ever - parts availability. I completely appreciate, and really like column wheel chronographs, but they just are not for me. I have owned a few and moved them. I’m worried about the costs and headaches of ownership. Maybe this line of thinking (whether rational or not) has pushed up the price of the mass produced cam switcher chronographs.

 

Chronographs have too many hands, including 2 (2!!!) second hands. IMO, you don't even need 1 second hand.

Okay, seriously - collectors are serious about watches, so a watch worth collecting should have a serious caliber inside. To me, the movement quality is one of the primary reasons to buy or not buy a watch.

 

Goodness. So many places to go with this...

 

Yessssss....

 

among my chrono collection, my cb66 is only 2nd to this, seriously

 

This is a very interesting argument, and one that probably deserves some merit.

To be fair, the watch world has gone gaga over pretty much everything, chronographs included. Never mind the desirable Speedies, Compaxes, 13ZN/30CH, El Primeros with column wheels - anything that has pushers will sell.

Quality of movement is a bit of "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." My Valjoux 22 is off for servicing, so I don't believe I have any photos of that...I can present a Seiko 5717 and a Zodiac powered by a Landeron 148. Column wheel and a cam.










Both are pretty to my eyes, and both have their merits/advantages/disadvantages/bang-for-buck etc.

You will also bring up the 321 vs 861 argument, or the Heuer 7736 vs 72 powered Autavias/Carreras, Bovet Landerons post purchase by Favre Leuba...

One thing to note is that Seiko's chronograph range of the 60s-70s - the 5717/5719s, 6138/6139s, and 7016 variants, are all column wheel based. The 6138s/6139s are plentiful in terms of NOS/generic parts, and donor parts regularly pop up. On the other hand, the 5717/19s and 7016s suffer the fate of lack of parts/donors, which has pushed the price up accordingly.

 

I think one of the problems many collectors of watches have is the belief that in this case a column wheel is always better than a cam switched chronograph. This also applies to things like bi-directional winding vs. uni-directional, Breuget overcoil vs flat spring, the lists go on and on. Unfortunately there are always compromises to be made. I have a Jaeger Le Coultre Deep Sea Chronograph, which has neither a Breguet overcoil or bidirectional winding which are both supposed to be superior. I have complete faith that Jaeger Le Coultre knows more about designing a movement, than I or 99.99% of collectors. Yet according to the specs on what makes a good movement the JLC 758 is not as good as say a 4130 by Rolex. For me, the JLC works and works well, compromises and all. Collectors can continue to drive the price of Daytona’s through the roof, but I’ll keep my “inferior” Deep Sea Chronograph.

 

@Vercingetorix - pic of that JLC DS chrono please.

 

Yeah, I was just thinking how expensive V7733 Camaros were now relative to other watches that I'd personally value higher (like a Dodane). I just think a lot of people that are getting into collecting don't necessarily care as much about movement but place a higher emphasis on "coolness" factor, collectibility, etc. which is more driven by branding/content in blogs.

To each their own though, right?

 

Moving back to the OP's discussion point:

An unknown branded Landeron is anywhere between 150-400USD unserviced. Add a word like "Bovet" or "Zodiac" on it and suddenly that value jumps. It must be remembered that the development of the 48 and it's derivatives were to give everyday people a chance at owning something that previously could only be afforded my those with more affluent means. So for those looking for a relatively inexpensive entry into vintage Swiss chronographs, cam switchers do provide that experience.

For myself, as long as the movement is well maintained, is presented well and gives me enjoyment, then it doesn't really matter whether it's a cam or column wheel. If I can get a column wheel at a good price then it can be considered a bonus.

 

This quote from @GuiltyBoomerang is very à propos ...

"To be fair, the watch world has gone gaga over pretty much everything, chronographs included. Never mind the desirable Speedies, Compaxes, 13ZN/30CH, El Primeros with column wheels - anything that has pushers will sell."