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Vintage 1960's 14K GF OMEGA Automatic, Calibre 560, Case Ref KL6312

  1. seamonster

    seamonster Respectable Member Sep 25, 2013

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    Respectable Members

    A close friend of mine was reviewing this blog (http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/) as he does regularly and came across an essay regarding rarities specifically the caliber 560.
    The watch he has interest in is a Calibre 560
    and reading the blog further it struck him that this piece maybe one of the most uncommon of all the 560 collectables.
    What are everyone's thoughts here?

    My friend has asked me to bid on eBay, on his behalf, which I am considering (and with a lot of bidding interest so far) how high dollar-wise, do I need to go if I want to really get this watch for his expanding collection?


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/141069597470?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


    Thank-you.
     
    Constellation.JPG
  2. ulackfocus

    ulackfocus Sep 25, 2013

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    Is that a redial?
     
  3. John R Smith

    John R Smith Sep 25, 2013

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    Why would you think it might be? (said JRS, very cautiously . . .)
     
  4. ulackfocus

    ulackfocus Sep 25, 2013

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    The gap between SWISS and MADE.
     
  5. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 25, 2013

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    Dial looks good to me. Here is my example:

    [​IMG]

    I don't think these are that rare. There are just too many cal. 560's around.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
  6. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 25, 2013

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    Gator yours does not have a gap in Swiss Made?

    But, here are a couple more that do? Thoughts?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 25, 2013

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    True. mine doesn't. But it is also a customized dial, so I don't count it.

    There are just so many of these in the marketplace, I just don't believe them to be rare and I don't buy the theory of the "3,000".
    gatorcpa
     
  8. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 25, 2013

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    Agree, even more if you count all of the ones sold without identifying the reference number
     
  9. 124watchfan

    124watchfan Sep 25, 2013

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    It's a nice piece but I wouldn't buy it for the 560. In reality it's just a non collection gold filled omega in nice condition. Price accordingly. The 560 may be worth $50 more if that. This piece shouldn't be more than $5-$600.
     
  10. hoipolloi

    hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Sep 25, 2013

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    I would say it's a redial, until somebody proves I am wrong.
     
  11. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 25, 2013

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    I think Steve already has.

    This one in particular has exactly the same dial as the OP's.

    [​IMG]

    gatorcpa
     
  12. X350 XJR

    X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Sep 25, 2013

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    I vote original finish on the dial, lume on the figures and hands match, most refinished dials don't even bother with the lume on the figures and even less would match the hands.

    I don't buy into the 3000 figure for the 560, I've had and seen way too many for that figure to hold up.

    Perhaps a $400.00 watch, just not that special.
     
  13. Hijak

    Hijak Sep 25, 2013

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    What a surprise!;)
     
  14. rshroff

    rshroff Sep 25, 2013

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    Dear Forum Followers:
    Regarding the comments by some not so fully informed pundits regarding whether the cal 560 is 'not so rare' -- I truly beg to substantially defer -- please note the following taken from the esteemed Mr. Desmond G's "Omega Seamaster & Other Cal 560 Rarities" -- http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2009/07/unearthed-more-omega-calibre-560.html

    Click on the updated 'essay' and take a moment to read all -- it won't hurt!!

    "Omega's database is a little patchy on numbers for the entire calibre, however further enquiries with the Omega museum confirm that only 3000 pieces were spread over the entire range of US collection models.

    "However, it is thought that out of the full production run of 3000 pieces, most of the movements were reserved for the more striking Seamaster DeVille models, and so, arguably, this (KL 6312) watch is the rarest of the four models".

    Finally, .................."however simple mathematics will tell you that some of the calibre 560 models (ie., the KL 6312 for specific instance) would have been produced in numbers less than 300, and that, for my money, renders them rare".

    So maybe only 100 or less of the KL 6312's were produced and exist --.
     
  15. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 25, 2013

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    It depends how you define rare really, I've never seen a plank dial in person, or a Seamaster Ultima, or a white gold 2852, but there's a dealer down the block from my office that has a Calibre 560 in his window, and there are several members with Calibre 560 "Kleerback" models http://omegaforums.net/threads/disc...n-vintage-display-back-kleerback-omegas.1189/

    So uncommon perhaps, but really its a movement with an only slight difference from a pile of others in the 500 series, and doesn't carry a massive premium due to a slightly unusual movement number.
     
  16. X350 XJR

    X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Sep 25, 2013

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    Rarity does not necessarily equate to desirability and hence to value.

    It's still a low karat gold-filled steel backed 17-jewel watch, nothing special regardless of its supposed rarity.
     
  17. 124watchfan

    124watchfan Sep 26, 2013

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    It's pretty safe to say that the members that commented in this thread have read and in my case re and reread Desmond's wonderful article on the 560s. They may have in fact been produced in a batch of 3000 however since one can at any given time find at least 2+ for sale it's really hard to call them rare or even scarce. And to add that the watches that they were cased into were, with a few exceptions, pedestrian timepieces. Mostly ss or gold filled pieces non collection. The caliber 560 itself is also a lower end movement, 17j, non chronometer, non quick set date. All this adds up to pieces that may be rare but certainly not trading at much of a premium and not actively being scooped up by collectors, well maybe some collectors.




    image.jpg
     
  18. ulackfocus

    ulackfocus Sep 26, 2013

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    The 560's that are ADJUSTED 2 (TWO) POSITIONS less common. It's also harder to find Swiss Made SMDV's with the 560 than the US Made models.
     
  19. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Sep 26, 2013

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    Desmond mentions this in his article.

    I think the steel SDMV, produced and cased in Switzerland are legitimately rare. And no one that I know has seen a Dynamic with the cal. 560 yet. A Kleerback is a rare watch regardless if it has a cal 550 (no date) or cal 560(with date). So while there may be some references within the population of cal. 560 watches that have high collector value, it isn't because of the movement.

    And therin lies the rub. I've seen at least 15 to 20 examples of this reference since the article was published several years ago. That statement would require these watches to have a very high survival rate 40 to 50 years on. Given that the cases on these are less than the highest quality, It doesn't make sense.

    I realize that these watches are going to be seen far more often here in the US than elsewhere. There are a lot of similarities between this story and the cal. 1011 pie-pan Constellations sold only in Japan. We don't see too many of these here, but I have seen a few over the years from Asia.

    I have always contended that rarity is more a matter of perspective than anything else. Example - there aren't any wild kangaroos in this part of the world, but I've heard they are so common in Astralia as to be a nuisance there.
    gatorcpa
     
  20. 124watchfan

    124watchfan Sep 26, 2013

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    Ive seen as many ss#166.020 SMDVs as any off the other supposed 560 references. IIRC Dennis had one and sold it on this forum and if Dennis sells it its a good bet its not that rare.