Value development in long terms

Just recently I sold a Rolex 16710 for triple of that what it had cost me 20 years ago (sold outside OF). Sounds good, eh? Is about 5,5% per year, which still sounds quite OK. That is significantly better than a standard savings book. But compared with the DAX (German stock market) this is rather poor, because the Dax had made about 7% per year in the same period.

Well, the main difference is the joy in having and wearing this watch over the two decades. Stocks are imo no real world fun, in contrast.

To summarize, collecting wrist watches is no really brilliant long term investment. Even if we collectors like to pretend otherwise 🙄. Money can only be made by (successfully!) flipping wrist watches in short terms.

I do not want to think about pocket watches in this context, I seriously need to ignore that these are really very bad "business", just as well as clocks 😲😁

Cheers, Bernhard

Compare it to the SP500 and you'll never want to hear the adjective 'investment' again for watches and horlogerie 😉

It goes without saying, it is a passion first of all. 100% with @dsio do it for your personnal love (rather than doing it for somebody else)

I personally prefer to compare with other daily life products like new cars, iphones, TVs, notebooks, fridges etc. They are expensive when new, but worth nothing within just a few years. Burnt money.

Then I feel great paying for a lovely vintage watch ... 😁

Calculated with todays asking prices or paid prices? 😝

I am just being a little bit jealous about that "performance" 😉 😬

But actually quite interesting, I had paid just 100 € less for the 16710 in 2003. There apparently was no serious market value increase until at least 2009. I should have waited 5 years for purchasing in order to get a similar IRR 😁

Do not take these thoughts all too serious, I am just in the moment having a little fun with rate of return calculations, knowing that Rolex values have developed "untypically" in the last years 😉 Despite my daily Vostok Amphibian with an early quality movement (bought long ago for a few bucks, literally!) performing just as good as a Rolex, even after more than 40 years of service in my hands ... 😲

Anyone like my brilliant and virtually as new Vostok? I might be pursuaded to part for, say, 5,000 € *lol*

P.S.: Ad mods, this is no serious offer for sale, but just a joke, because nobody would pay more than 100 € for that one. I neverthless love it. Äh, that would result in an IRR of more than 4%, not too bad either 😁

😎

I would take the sell side of this everyday of the week and five times on Fridays

At least one postive aspect in Germany, if you have owned a watch for more than one year, a private person does not have to pay any capital gain tax.

Although my above considerations were for fun only, if one minds about the inheritance case (I am 66), these thoughts might be of some relevance. Not so much with vintage wrist watches, wherein the market prices can be easily established. But more for pocket watches and clocks, wherein the market is quite "volatile", to say it friendly.

It might make sense to start selling off larger collections well in time, in particular if potential heirs have no interest in watches and, according, less to no knowledge. I personally frequently update my documentation with realistic market values (or what I think is realistic), so that others at least have some idea in the event that I (surpringly) bite the grass. And have taken the habit of selling off more watches than I buy (in contrast to formerly 😁).

I have seen hugh (pocket) watch collections of elder (or passed away) collectors going to auctions and getting rather silly hammer prices. Wherein one must consider that traditional auction houses take up to 40% of the hammer price, a part from bidders and and a part from consigners (at least in Germany). That is the reason why I have concentrated on watches with gold cases in recent years, at least the material value stays (and has increased in recent years). And avoid auction houses in favor of selling privately (in time). Then potential heirs will at least be left with a "core collection" only.

Bernhard, I am English and have never heard that phrase used before! Is it a translation? I love it and am adopting it, thank you.

😁 I had thought it were common in the English language also 😁 In German it says, literally translated, to "bite into the grass".

Talking about adopted phrases from the German language, is "Reichweitenangst" known in English? I know that "German Angst" seems to have become common in the English language. "Reichweitenangst" is the feeling when your electric car might not have sufficient capacity to reach the next charging point 😁.

More ‘bite the dust’, which I think is an American cowboy film thing.

Here it is ‘Range Anxiety’, as I am currently still petrol/diesel their problems give me schadenfreude! (My favourite German language import, and that says a lot about me!)