Value declaration when selling

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As you say it rather depends on where you are and perhaps it may help the discussion if you were to say where you are before offering a definitive opinion. It may be true that underdeclaring makes items less desirable to steal but as noted several times above it has negative consequences for insurance which rather negates this advantage (yes it is available from some services) and is in effect fraud so feel free to encourage people to having their shipments punitively charged. Do you also fiddle your tax return, why not, it is the same ethical breach after all?

Most postal services do not cover/insure watche. Read the small print.

Declaring a low value is a good way to ensure that the shipment is not so interesting to steal.
Employees with the various postal and logistic services are not all "good guys" even though I am sure the vast majority is.

As for declaring incorrectly on a customs label it depends a lot what country you are in. I have understood from the US guys that it is a criminal offence ensuring you are guaranteed to get shot at dayrise, however in our "less developed" part of the world it is not taken as harsh.
 
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As you say it rather depends on where you are and perhaps it may help the discussion if you were to say where you are before offering a definitive opinion. It may be true that underdeclaring makes items less desirable to steal but as noted several times above it has negative consequences for insurance which rather negates this advantage (yes it is available from some services) and is in effect fraud so feel free to encourage people to having their shipments punitively charged. Do you also fiddle your tax return, why not, it is the same ethical breach after all?
Don't worry. I pay my 45% income tax already. I also pay 25% VAT on all and everything I purchase.
My contribution to society is well taken care of.

It is fully possible to pay extra on customs if you receive an under-invoiced product upon receipt. This is a matter of how high moral you are keeping up, and I am not the one to pass judgement upon others, and find it a bit awkward to see other feels better qualified in that respect.

If anything I said in the quoted text seems definitive I beg you to point it out.
 
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Point taken and I agree that my use of the word definitive was unhelpful but I was using it is the negative sense in that to give advice without stating which jurisdiction it applied to was perhaps misleading. I note that you still haven't clarified this. It does sound like you are taxed to the hilt already but I have seen posts like yours in the past which suggest that the individual can pick and choose which taxes apply to them. I am happy to concede that this is clearly not what you are suggesting, though as I say which regime does apply to your advice is still not yet established...

Don't worry. I pay my 45% income tax already. I also pay 25% VAT on all and everything I purchase.
My contribution to society is well taken care of.

It is fully possible to pay extra on customs if you receive an under-invoiced product upon receipt. This is a matter of how high moral you are keeping up, and I am not the one to pass judgement upon others, and find it a bit awkward to see other feels better qualified in that respect.

If anything I said in the quoted text seems definitive I beg you to point it out.
Edited:
 
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And you want to know why some US sellers are reluctant to sell overseas?😲

Sorry, I wouldn't want to gamble like that. Not worth the risk. Either I declare properly, or we can't do business.
gatorcpa
I agree. I've not yet sold but I insist that the value is correct on Watches I import and happy to pay the duty.
 
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Point taken and I agree that my use of the word definitive was unhelpful but was I using it is the negative sense in that to give advice without stating which jurisdiction it applied to was perhaps misleading. I note that you still haven't clarified this. It does sound like you are taxed to the hilt already but I have seen posts like yours in the past which suggest that the individual can pick and choose which taxes apply to them. I am happy to concede that this is clearly not what you are suggesting, though as I say which regime does apply to your advice is still not yet established...

I am in Norway, northern Europe. EEC area.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/no.html
 
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I guess if the customer takes responsibility for the transport of the item, then you can indulge in valuing it the way he needs. If the parcel gets lost, its his baby.

You mean like if you meet in your attorney's office and sign affidavits to that affect that are witnessed and notarized. Well sure, then I guess it's his baby.🤦
 
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I've probably repeated this story several times, but here it goes again.

A number of years ago, there used to be a big-time watch collector in Canada whose wife was a Canadian Customs agent. She would sit there and read the forums with him. I'd be shocked if she didn't use her position to trace back IP addresses and alert the postal authorities if there were Canadians trying to evade the customs law/GST.

My point is that you never know who is reading these things. If you want to get into the details, that's fine, but you'd be better served taking this conversation offline and into PM or emails. More difficult to trace who is who there.

Please don't invite me in.
gatorcpa
 
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I've probably repeated this story several times, but here it goes again.

A number of years ago, there used to be a big-time watch collector in Canada whose wife was a Canadian Customs agent. She would sit there and read the forums with him. I'd be shocked if she didn't use her position to trace back IP addresses and alert the postal authorities if there were Canadians trying to evade the customs law/GST.

My point is that you never know who is reading these things. If you want to get into the details, that's fine, but you'd be better served taking this conversation offline and into PM or emails. More difficult to trace who is who there.

Please don't invite me in.
gatorcpa


how would a forum reader (customs agent) be able to trace IP's from forum posts?
 
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how would a forum reader (customs agent) be able to trace IP's from forum posts?
It's law enforcement. How would I know?

Would you post your private business (that may or may not be illegal) on a public forum?

Common sense.
gatorcpa
 
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I could tell each member here what IP address(es) they use and where each one hails from, and I'm just a putz on a watch forum. Hell, they have programs for displaying what IP address and browser each person you see a post from!
 
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It's law enforcement. How would I know?

Would you post your private business (that may or may not be illegal) on a public forum?

Common sense.
gatorcpa
agree that discussing private business, and potentially customs fraud in an open forum is a very bad idea.. just saying that for a law enforcement agency to get IPs, they would have to make contact with the site operators to collect logs. I'm just saying that I don't understand how a customs agent reading the forum could do anything about it other than maybe initiating an investigation and bringing a demand for log data to the site operator... perfectly possible, just unlikely IMHO.
 
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I'm just saying that I don't understand how a customs agent reading the forum could do anything about it other than maybe initiating an investigation and bringing a demand for log data to the site operator... perfectly possible, just unlikely IMHO.
Agreed, unlikely. Would you take that chance?

Government has virtually unlimited resources.
gatorcpa
 
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Agreed, unlikely. Would you take that chance?

Government has virtually unlimited resources.
gatorcpa
I would not. I never disagreed with that, just questioning how a customs agent reading a public forum with her hubby could track IPs. Anyway, we agree that discussing this in public is a bad idea.
 
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I noticed this thread has not a single picture of a watch 😲!

I bought this one from overseas...👍 I can't remember if I paid a duty, customs, or tax (probably did) but if so, I don't even care anymore!

 
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In my rather uncivilised part of the world law enforcement need a search warrant equivalent to a home search in order to be allowed insight into my ISPs records.
Failing to obtain one would be a severe and publishable crime on the hands of the public employees side.

In order to obtain it they would need to convince a judge that what this IP address is up to might be punishable by at least a x years prison sentence.
Attempting to dodge VAT is extremely far away from that.
 
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I think this is no different than people who use the friends/gift method on PayPal to avoid fees. Fraud is fraud and I would be very hesitant to do a deal with someone who suggests it.
 
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I think this is no different than people who use the friends/gift method on PayPal to avoid fees. Fraud is fraud and I would be very hesitant to do a deal with someone who suggests it.
There is always direct bank transfer between friends. Cheaper than PayPal also.

Calling fraud is s bit harsh?
Like driving faster than the speed limit is a crime......
 
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It's clearly fraud....you are avoiding paying fees for a service by lying. Basically the definition of fraud, and yes clearly there are alternatives.
 
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Amazing with the time difference, you can see exactly at what time the paranoia set in. Come on guys I think big brother has better things to do than worry about import duties.

The reason I asked the question in the first place is because I was oblivious to the consequences. Now that I am aware, my decision will be more rational.

Can't we all just love each other?