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Universal Geneve - Compur 30 "RLM"

  1. PhilipvD Jul 29, 2015

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    Hi UG Fans
     
    Edited Sep 8, 2017
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  2. jfwoodman Jul 29, 2015

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    I know nothing about it, but I like it! Classic military piece. Interesting how the case is notched at the crown. I've never seen that before.
     
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  3. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 29, 2015

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    Ref 22409 ReichsLuftsfahrMinisterium
    Case may or may not be authentic (I am not enough of an expert on the RLM-Nav engraving, but the case shape, references and serial number are correct), but its charm is compromised by the dial, which looks to be a crude redial. Fonts are wrong and the double minute and seconds tracks are wrong on both the main dial and subdials. Original would have been lumed of course.
     
    Edited Jul 29, 2015
  4. ELV web Jul 29, 2015

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    So in this kind of watch does being redialed the same as most other watch? Edit: I have no idea what a genuine dial should look like but I can see LoUs point that the clarity of the fonts and subdial points to it being redialed.
     
  5. jordn Wants to be called Frank for some odd reason Jul 30, 2015

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    At least from talking to military watch aficionados it seems like re-lume jobs (or no lume in this case) aren't necessarily considered depreciating factors in evaluating value, but a redial like this is a no-no like with any other watch. Like LouS pointed out, the font and the minute/seconds track is very off.

    I'm assuming that it is an arbitrary expansion of the payphone markings, but if anyone could illuminate to us a military significance in the additional "12", it would certainly be fascinating.
     
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  6. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Jul 30, 2015

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    A good explanation here. By "Happy jack" on WUS.

    I used to be a Royal Navy Navigator, and we always used to mark our charts for projected future times along our track by DR (dead reckoning) or EP (estimated positions) calculation, in time intervals that were simple multiples or fractions of six minutes. The reason was very simple - a 6 minutes is 1/10th of an hour. So if you ship is doing 15 knots (15 nautical miles per hour), in 6 minutes it will do 1.5 nautical miles. Depending on the scale of the chart in use, you might want to mark the chart every 3 minutes, or every 12. In the same way, we'd aim to fix our position at 6 minute (or 3 or 12 minute) intervals since we could then very quickly calculate the speed made good - as being 10 times (or 20 times or 5 times) the distance covered between adjacent fixes.

    So I suspect that the 3 minute interval markings on the chrono may be to assist with navigation calculations...
     
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  7. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 30, 2015

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    You are showing me a picture of the exact same watch to validate that it is authentic? ::confused2:: Best to compare it to other examples.

    It is a redialer's mistake, simply.

    http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-1100773905/noodiawatch/photos/ig-1034647177902492662_1100773905

    Perhaps the owner of that example would care to comment? @Noodia
     
  8. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 30, 2015

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    And when did you buy your watch in relation to the publication date of Mr. Knirim's (simply awesome) book?

    Is the six digit number beginning with "8" the same? You have yours obscured.
     
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  9. ICONO Jul 30, 2015

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    Coincidentally, there is a mark on the upper right lug, ( when seen from the back ), that exactly matches the mark on the upper right lug, in the illustration, in the book.

    As I said, coincidence.
     
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  10. ELV web Jul 30, 2015

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    Could it be mr. Knirim sold you the watch? I think it doesn't hurt to ask him whether he was the seller at the German auction or not.
     
  11. nicolas07 Jul 30, 2015

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    Quite inetresting discussion indeed on a very nice UG ref.
    However, I am also a bit concerned by the dial as it seems to me that "60" in the second subdial is not centered (as we can see in the picture from the book too)... and font is indeed far from what we typically saw in UG production
     
  12. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 30, 2015

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    That's odd. The RLM number is the same. How do you think that might have happened?::popcorn::

    Here are three other examples:

    P1110620.JPG

    The watch in the instagram link above
    11426493_1085279944898633_367242052_n.jpg

    An example from Sala:
    IMG_6422a.jpg


    this watch
    RLM145260-adfeb76044f51bb40bed730cae67b183.jpg

    deadhorse.gif
     
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  13. Dre Jul 30, 2015

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    Seems to be the only one with pointed 'A' as well apart from all the things above
     
  14. woodwkr2 Jul 30, 2015

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    Well done. I've been gone for too long.
     
  15. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 31, 2015

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  16. Dre Jul 31, 2015

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    Indeed you have, I was just about to start a thread wondering where is the legendary @woodwkr2 is
     
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  17. jordn Wants to be called Frank for some odd reason Jul 31, 2015

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    It would be a more interesting thread than this one
     
  18. PhilipvD Jul 31, 2015

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    Thanks mate. Reeeally appriciate your input here
     
  19. jordn Wants to be called Frank for some odd reason Jul 31, 2015

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    Not really sure why you took that as a personal affront. As he is an invaluable reservoir of knowledge in these topics, Byron's absence is more than worth noting.

    More on topic - going by your replies, you are obviously not hearing the answers that you would like to hear. As a fellow collector, I am truly sorry that you bought a watch that has a refinished dial (and I do mean it), but if you had started a thread like this before buying the watch, your inquiry would certainly not be considered pointless.
     
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  20. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 31, 2015

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    Something magical has happened here. We have just organically written the horological version of the Dead Parrot Sketch

     
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