I had a sub-dial hand fall off on my 105.012 Speedy and it frankly needed a service anyway. I got in contact with the very nice Mr Simon Freese and made plans for him to service the watch.

I live in Canada and have a Parcel Pro account and so I foresaw no issues in getting the watch to the UK. I checked the box on the customs form for “repair and return” and monitored the tracking number.

I received a call from FedEx suggesting that UK customs had requested more info on the watch in the package, which I provided, including a realistic valuation.

After a week of it sitting at Stansted Airport, I called FedEx - apparently the watch required duties to be paid of $1,000 (which Simon understandably and happily for me, refused to pay). I argued that the watch wasn’t being imported permanently - it was being sent to a watchmaker for repair and for it to be sent back to me, but to no avail.

So I asked for the watch to be returned as the cost of duties exceeded the cost of the repair (and frankly didn’t make sense).

The watch has now sat in limbo for the last month at Stansted. Six different phone calls to and from FedEx has finally got it moving back home, but the whole thing has been a complete debacle that started mid-February and I don’t have the watch back yet.

Has anyone else had an issue sending a watch for a repair to the UK with customs duties? I simultaneously sent a different watch to ABC Watchwerks in LA and there was no issue (and ive not had issues in the past).

I’m sending a watch to Switzerland in the next week and am worried I’ll get the same treatment as the UK...

 

Yes, not me but it's happpened to others. Its why I'd never send a watch over to U.K. without hand carrying it to and from. I don't think Switzerland is as bad if at all.

 

I would suggest FedEx are at fault here.
Usually when UK customs see a package marked watch being sent for repair they will contact the watchmaker concerned for confirmation that the watch will be re-exported after repair. There should be no custom duties payable once they get confirmation.

 

It is crazy... I have never heard anything like that before!!!

 

Had the same issue...I held my ground and argued my point of repair and return and they finally accepted this. I believe the duties were under $100. But during the conversation the rep stated that "they have had this issue before with this person" implying Simon, which I didnt quite understand. They also stated import laws are quite clear and this is not allowed. But despite these statements they ultimately accepted the package at the reduced duties.

I would love to know why as I want to send more watches to Simon...he does amazing work.

BTW- I had the exact same issue upon return to the US as well. They tried to claim "Repair and Return" was not allowed for this. I argued again and finally they accepted it. But my package was delayed on both ends.

 

Does Simon not have the proper licenses? If he's doing work as a private citizen perhaps this is the issue?

 

Technically, you require a carnet. Without such a document, HM Customs is within their rights to levy duty because - no matter what you or the watchmaker promise or how sweetly you smile - they have no way of ensuring that the item actually will leave the country again.

https://www.atacarnet.com/what-carnet

 

Bingo - not surprised at this situation at all. Many places will make you pay the duty/taxes up front, and you can claim it all back once you have proof the watch has been exported again - it's part of doing business internationally. I can't speak for Great Britain, but typically here in Canada the bulk of what you are being charged is taxes, not duty.

If the shipper prepared the paperwork properly, there should have been zero issues. This includes a copy of their invoice for the work, a properly completed Watch Information form, a Repaired Watch Breakout Sheet, and a Foreign Shipper's Repair Declaration. It sounds like a lot of paperwork, but it takes just a couple of minutes to fill all these out. If they didn't do this then it's no surprise that the watch was held up.

Cheers, Al

 

Are you in the Import/Export business and can state this for certain? I ask because I've been going through this process myself as am UK based now. So far, I've only received a couple of watches from outside the EU so, am feeling my way and discussing with HM Customs as I go. No issues yet but also no requirement from them to have an ATA carnet. I have been advised that a carnet is not the appropriate system for this. We refer to it here as TA (Temporary Admission) and we can use IWR (Inward Processing Relief). The carnet is really an "ATA carnet" and again refers to Temporary Admission but, here is one extract from HM Gov notice 104.
--------
4.2 Goods that cannot be imported to the UK using an ATA carnet
Goods/use
Goods temporarily imported for processing or repair.
Further information
Relief may be available under Inward Processing relief see Notice 221: Inward Processing Relief
---------

I don't want to get into Notice 221 and anyway, it's superseded by Notice 3001 as it goes into great depth and is very heavy going.

I don't understand how they would be tracking the work Simon does here to be able to say that. The import laws are not exactly clear but what you were doing is most definitely allowed. The charge should be zero so I've no idea how they would work out some reduced duty unless it was 20% of your postage and packing. It's not easy to figure out what these guys are doing though.

In UK you don't need anything in particular to do this so, I would not see this as an issue for Simon and the way he is working. I'm not saying that I understand all of this in depth but I've been advised to do things in a similar way to that which Simon apparently proposed to the OP.

This is also true here, duties are not really significant, it is VAT (Value Added Tax which we pay on all purchases unless they are essentials) that they are trying to charge at about 20% of the value. In the worst situation I can pay this and then claim it back when exporting the watch again but have no experience with that.

I know this helps not a jot but, I think the OP has been unlucky here and it is not normal. Now, Spanish Customs was an entirely different matter...

Regards, Chris

 

No, I was recounting information that I was given when I was in a similar situation some time ago. It sounds like you've done your research, and obviously, since you're in the UK, you should put more weight in information obtained directly from HM Customs than from a carnet processor contracted to the US government.

I guess the grand answer is that there's a process for everything, and ignorance of that process is no excuse, nor is the fact that someone has managed to skirt it without problems in the past, any guarantee of future success.

 

Thanks, I was not being difficult there, just gathering information. Like I say, I've just set up in UK so am feeling my way with the customs system.

I said on another forum recently where someone was bemoaning that there are not enough watchmakers, that you need at least three things to be able to do this: time to learn; money for equipment; the ability to set up and run a business. The last one is just as difficult as the first two when you're dealing with issues such as this. Luckily, there are 27 countries that don't give me an issue with customs... at least for the next year or two!

I actually have a watch coming from Canada at the moment so, I will see if it's related to that country. Just looked and it arrived in UK this evening so I'll keep an eye on it and see if it gets stuck.

Cheers, Chris

 

What I was told was that the receiver needs a specific license to avoid duties (they didn’t specify which and I didn’t press) and that in this case the receiver did not have that license. Meaning that duties were to apply or the shipment would need to be returned. FedEx Canada got involved and was arguing with their UK counterparts on my behalf, as they too thought there shouldn’t be customs on this but they didn’t get anywhere either.

In terms of the paperwork mentioned, perhaps I should’ve investigated more before sending, but I’ve shipped watches for repair to the US on multiple occasions and also once to Japan without any issues whatsoever (always checking the “repair and return” box on the customs form), so I didn’t foresee an issue.

Lesson learned - seems a bit silly for the UK government to turn away a nice payday in the form of tax dollars earned on Simon’s work, but who am I to argue...

 

Its all so stupid ... I'm retiring soon and will not be in the UK as frequently as in the past. Guess I missed my window on STS and/or Simon. I will never risk a valuable speedy to this rat maze.

 

I had the same experience, but to France

Bought a 1016 Explorer from a collector there, when received there was some issue
Seller promised to fix it, so I sent back to France (Fedex/ParcelPro), with "For Repair" documentation completed

Then the France customs asked for Tax/Customs, it was expensive

On call with FedEx/ParcelPro dozens times, the watch stuck there in FedEx/France Customs for 3 months

Glad finally came back to me though...
Then FedEx sent me bill later for space/locker fee from France Customs

After that, I have never ever try to service anything outside of US

I then send it to Bob/Phil Ridley, and the seller paid me money to cover the service

But still, 3 months of horror,
I tried to claim loss, but ParcelPro will not cover as loss since FedEx tracking number didn't said package was lost

I told FedEx on one of the last dozens calls that I prefer the watch to be lost so I can have coverage money from Insurance rather than NOT LOST but not sure if I can get it back

 

That’s a terrible story but similar to mine (sounded like yours lasted even longer).

FedEx was ZERO help until I escalated the issue to their management level.

 

Work in government job in export import.

Golden rule on every gov website

Its up to importer and exporters to know all laws prior to business

Ticking a box for fedex is not considered paperwork as we dont see that. Phone calls mean nothing as anyone could be on the phone.

Main advice to all......

Signed declaration on letter head from watchmaker
Signed declaration from sender ......easy done

 

I set up the shipment via Parcel Pro and included all the forms you listed, including a signed declaration from the watchmaker and myself. I expect this is why ultimately the package cleared. But I was told by a fedex trade rep in London specifically that there was no such thing as duty free for repairs and despite all the paperwork mine was held and questioned. I was also accessed minimal duties on both ends.

My case is different from OP in that it was finally released, serviced and returned safely...but not after much undo stress.

 

Sorry sounds like a horrendous experience, especially with a Speedy like that.

This is veering off a little from subject but is there any hack to avoid VAT if I ship a watch that I’ve sold from my location in the US to a buyer in Europe using Parcel Pro to fully insure shipment?

I assume the answer is no. In which case OUCH, how do you European watch collectors deal with that? I don’t think I could ever bring myself to pay those duties.

 

Hack???

Europeans pay a VAT, Americans pay income tax and corporate taxes....and the end of the day its all the same.
There is no hack that doesnt include prison time.

 

And if you’re in California you pay “Use” tax