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  1. Moahunter

    Moahunter Aug 27, 2016

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    I'm trying to compile some info. on this interesting watch so any contributions will be appreciated.
    Seems to have been produced with at least 4 varieties of dial design with the following inscriptions on the lower half of the dial. I must stress that this ordering is totally arbitrary on my part, I have no idea what the sequence of the different iterations was. For instance although the watch was first announced at the Basel Fair in 1963, an example of #1 below has a Ser. No. 2825468, indicating a very late 60s manufacture.
    1. Railrouter
    1205

    2. RR. 1205

    3. RR.1205-0

    4. Railrouter
    Chronometre

    Versions 1, 2 and 4 have Cal. 1205 movements (numbered 9266, 9255 and 9557). #3 has a Cal. 65 (not numbered).
    The information I have garnered so far is based on a very small sample so I would welcome anything you can add regarding other examples, especially serial nos.
     
    Edited Jan 7, 2017
  2. Jonatan

    Jonatan Aug 27, 2016

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    Do you have pictures?
     
  3. Moahunter

    Moahunter Aug 27, 2016

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    Easily found doing a Google Image search, U...G...Railrouter or ditto rr 1205.
     
  4. Jonatan

    Jonatan Aug 27, 2016

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    Yeah!
     
    Capture d’écran 2016-08-27 à 10.29.07.png Capture d’écran 2016-08-27 à 10.28.46.png
  5. Bill Sohne

    Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 15, 2016

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    Hi

    Your right these are special watches.... I have a few... I think my watch maker might have lost one!
    Let me see If I can find a few of mine with movement shots...

    Whats not to like
    1) screw down case
    2) manual wind movement adj 5 pos and temp
    3) hacking !

    Good Hunting

    bill Sohne
     
  6. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 22, 2016

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    I was trying to gather some information on this watch and came upon this conversation on reddit regarding a gentleman talking about his watch.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/46d3y6/universal_genève_railrouter_1205/

    The picture is of the 1205 and there is an exchange between the new owner of the watch and the previous owner. It appears this particular model was issued to CP workers working in British Columbia (BC), Canada.

    I'm surely not bringing anything new by saying that this watch was issued to Canadian Pacific (CP) railroad workers in Canada and I guess as mentionned on the above link also in Alaska.

    There is also a thread on https://mentawatches.com/inventory/universal-geneve-nos-full-set-railrouter/ which was selling a NOS and full set version of the watch. I have added some pictures for refrences because links die young. I hope this is ok.

    Pictures from Menta Watches
     
    Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.23.41.png Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.23.28.png Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.23.20.png Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.23.13.png Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.23.05.png Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.22.57.png Capture d’écran 2016-11-22 à 12.22.50.png
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  7. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 22, 2016

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    I just noticed that a Timezone member called fazmaster which I believe is @Faz here (the guitars) is or was a CP rail traffic controler. He may be able to bring more insight?
     
  8. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 22, 2016

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    Well I have come upon another source on http://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6366042471/m/681101442 were a member named Larry Buchan a Railway historian, IHC Life Member and Site Moderator mentions that :

    The zero in the 1205-0 designates the "0" at 12 oclock instead of the usual 24 hour marking.
     
  9. Faz

    Faz Nov 22, 2016

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    Hi

    Railway issued watches for CP and CN had to meet certain standards as you might already know. Operating rules required that employees connected with train operations as mentioned in the CROR, had to check their watches for accuracy before commencing duty. This was done by comparing time with an approved time source. In the old days, a railway approved clock could be found in certain stations and the station master would check it everyday so that it was within the 30 second threshold allowed by the rules. The UG shown here is very uncommon in the CPR.
    Mechanical watches issued started to disappear when Bulova came out with the Accutron.

    This is one of the most common RR watch encountered by collectors. The Bulova Accutron with tuning fork movement
    IMG_0075.JPG
    Omega, Longines and UG were known suppliers the CPR before then. Certain brands were favored depending on which province or division the employee worked in. Employees working in central Canada especially Manitoba, had watches with an extra hand to tell time in 2 time zones.
    Dual time zone Accutron. Quartz and tuning fork Dual time zone...
    IMG_0074.JPG
    Old Hamilton pocket watch IMG_0077.JPG with dual time zones
    IMG_0076.JPG
    Until the year 2004, Canadian Railway Operating Rules required that approved watches be examined for accuracy every 6 months if I recall and this had to be done by a recognized watchmaker that kept a log of watches in service. Very much like military issued watches or even like flight qualified Omega Speedmasters. Obviously, mechanical watches were very expensive to maintain and they went the route of the dodo bird so to speak when the Bulova Accutron appeared. The Accutron disappeared when cheap quartz watches started to flood the market. Those were mainly supplied by Bulova, Seiko and Rodania.

    I have never seen a Canadian railroad approved watch with the "O". Rules stated that they had to show time in the 24 hour system. Midnight was, and still is, designated as either 2359 or 0001. Never by "0" or "0000". All watches I know about at CP displayed the number 24 and 12 at the 12 o'clock position. I suspect the dials with "0" at the 12 o'clock position were made European railroad worker market and would be in violation of the pre 2004 CROR. My first watch was a Swiss Military quartz! My passion for watches started when I hired on the CPR. How cool is it that a mandatory tool of the trade was and still is a watch!

    Sorry for the long winded post. I'm a little passionate about the subject..
     
  10. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 22, 2016

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    And I am glad that you shared this information with us. Thank you!
     
    Edited Nov 22, 2016
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  11. Moahunter

    Moahunter Nov 22, 2016

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    Hi Jonatan
    Interesting info. Did you notice it doesn't list any UG watches....but it does include Bulova RR 52 and RR 1205. These of course were UG, the RR 52 being the Unisonic. Does the listing reflect the ownership, at the time, of UG by Bulova?
     
  12. Diabolik

    Diabolik Nov 23, 2016

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    That is a great looking railrouter ...
     
  13. DeltaRomeo

    DeltaRomeo Nov 24, 2016

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    There are Railrouters without "Railrouter" printed in the dial, so maybe we should also consider like a Railrouter the watch asigned to Ferrovie dello Stato, the Italian railway company, along those years (Ferrovie dello Stato logo and serial number engraved in the caseback). It has cal 64, nearly the same that cal 65 but with seconds at six. Both 64 ad 65 movements are only seen in railroad watches.
     
    FullSizeRender.jpg
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  14. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 24, 2016

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    Maybe we should rename the thread to UG railroad watches. That FS is nice. I have always wondered it the dial was in ceramic or enamel? From what I have seen there are two different cases for the Ferrovie dello Stato watches?

    @DeltaRomeo could you share a movement shot with us?
     
  15. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 24, 2016

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    No I had not noticed.

    Yes, Bulova had bought UG by 79' so I would go with your guess.
     
    Edited Nov 24, 2016
  16. MattF

    MattF Nov 25, 2016

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    I am the proud owner of a RR. 1205-0. It is my understanding that the 1205-0 were exclusively made for the Canadian Railway. They have the HF twisted lug case, cal 65 with hacking, screw down caseback...an utterly fantastic piece. Happy to share anything else I may know. IMG_0307.JPG
     
  17. Faz

    Faz Nov 25, 2016

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    Very nice and interesting...although as I mentioned I have never seen the "0" version at Canadian Pacific..maybe it was intended for the CNR and CPR but not sure it was officially issued by either.

    Cheers
     
  18. MattF

    MattF Nov 25, 2016

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    Thanks Faz. Very interesting information in your post. The information I had gotten about the "0" version with in relation to CNR I believe but I have never been able to find much definitive proof and interestingly enough the "0" version and non "0" version I believe had the same UG model number.
     
  19. Faz

    Faz Nov 26, 2016

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    I have to admit that the mechanical versions of the "approved" watches for our railways came before I started my career. What I know, is that although they might have been designed for the Canadian roads, they might have been rejected because of the lack of the number "24" combined with the absence of "0000" hours in our operating rules. But again all this is unofficial. It can certainly explain their rarity. That is a striking watch you have there and I wouldn't mind owning one myself!
    :thumbsup:
     
  20. Jonatan

    Jonatan Nov 26, 2016

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    I will go ahead and call a DIBS on that before anyone else does! Just in case you decide to part with it one day.