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  1. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Hi all,

    My first post here having stumbled across you guys whilst doing research into a Speedmaster I've recently (in the last 18 months) inherited from my father.

    Having already done some research into the watch I'm trying to get my head round all the various versions of the speedmaster and how these things affect rarity and value.

    I've read some of the sticky threads, some of the clearly very informed people on here have posted up, but am still struggling to understand various aspects. What I know about the watch is as follows.

    1.) It was bought new in Aden in the early 60's by my uncle when he was stationed there with the RAF. He then wore it as a daily watch for approximately 40yrs till he died in the early 2000's.
    2.) My father was given the watch by my uncles daughters as a thank you for dealing with their fathers estate and sorting everything out for them. He then somehow realised that maybe this watch was quite rare/valuable and being the man he was, wanted to find out more about it. As part of that research, he sent the watch off to Omega themselves (which I now know was maybe not the best thing to do), to try and find out more about it and also potentially have it serviced. Fortunately (I gather) he chose not to have them do anything to it, but they did check the watch over and supplied him with information (which I cannot currently find) stating that the watch was totally original and nothing on it had ever been replaced.
    3.) I believe the watch is a 105.002 model and a friendly omega enthusiast, has told me and my mother that what Omega said seems to be true.
    4.) The friendly enthusiast, also said that the watch itself is a relatively rare speedmaster model (which my research seems to confirm), but that it being totally original makes it much rarer and the fact that's it's entire history is known also makes this rarer.

    This leaves me trying to work out some kind of ballpark idea of how rare this actually is and what the value of the watch is. I need to understand this so I can work out whether I can afford to insure it and keep it (so what value I would need to tell the insurance company), or whether I really cannot afford to and therefore need to sell it, but where I come utterly unstuck is in having a clue what "value" it reasonably has, for the following reasons.

    1.) How rare is it for a watch to be totally original, including the bracelet.
    2.) How do I appraise the condition, to my eyes, it looks good, but I'm no expert on watches or what collectors look for (although some of the sticky posts have helped on this front).
    3.) how realistic are the prices being asked for these types of watches, given the apparently wild variations I've seen and been told (everything from £3-5k) to "probably £15k+ but if you get two collectors in a bidding war who knows.

    As such what I trying to understand is.

    1.) How rare is it? (assuming clearly that it is actually completely original)
    2.) Does it look in genuinely good condition?
    3.) How do things like rarity, originality and condition affect values and desirability? Does me knowing it's entire history affect this rarity/value?
    4.) If I do end up wanting to sell it, how do I ensure that I'm both not undervaluing it, neither am I flying a kite way beyond it's value.
    5.) When insuring it, do I just take the value that I think and add 20% or do something else?
    6.) How critical is finding the info Omega supplied to my father?

    I've added some pics below. I don't have the tools needed to remove the back and would be loathe to do so anyway for fear of damaging it :(

    Any guidance people can offer would be much appreciated, fundamentally I'm trying to understand what I have..
     
    IMG_20190724_183226.jpg IMG_20190724_183236.jpg IMG_20190724_183256.jpg IMG_20190724_183301.jpg IMG_20190724_183327.jpg IMG_20190724_183425.jpg IMG_20190724_183437.jpg
  2. BlackTalon

    BlackTalon Jul 24, 2019

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    Welcome, and that is a nice story/ history.

    Now to address your questions. Honestly, your photos are really not good enough for a critical assessment, and lacking photos of the movement and inside of caseback also prevents a thorough analysis.

    It looks to me like the seconds hand (d'oh -- sweep seconds hand!) and possibly subregister hands may have been replaced (I do not know this stuff nearly as well as many others here, and would need to check the usual references). Case has been a polished a bit as well. It is hard to judge the bezel and dial from these photos.

    I think if you want to get a really good review/ assessment by some of the experts here you need to take new photos that do not have a glare on hem, and add photos of caseback, inside of caseback and movement (including one showing at least the first handful of serial # digits). And get some close-ups of the date on the bracelet and the of the endlinks where the # is stamped.
     
    Edited Jul 24, 2019
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  3. Dan S

    Dan S Jul 24, 2019

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    Certainly not all-original, but it is a rare reference.
     
  4. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Hi thanks for the info on the bracelet, I had no idea there was anything useful there, but have taken a couple of pics here. Wish I could get the quality better, guess it's the joys of camera phones that aren't very good, might have to try my wifes new Samsung and see if it does a better job.

    I wish I could get some pics of the inside, but I'll need to get someone who knows what they are doing to take the back off.
     
    IMG_156399289759F.jpg IMG_156399292750F.jpg
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  5. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Ok, as I'm trying to find out about it, can you explain how you know that and what isn't original?
     
  6. Dan S

    Dan S Jul 24, 2019

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    Sweep hand, obviously. Most likely the sub-dial hands, pushers. I suspect the crown is a replacement, but I can't really get a good look at it.
     
  7. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Ok thanks for clarifying, guess I'm going to have to try and find a better camera and someone to be able to take the back off.
     
  8. Dan S

    Dan S Jul 24, 2019

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    Regardless of minor replacement parts, assuming the movement is in the right serial range, it's a valuable and desirable piece. Whoever told you 3-5k GBP was probably trying to rip you off.
     
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  9. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Ok,thanks for the extra info, part of the reason I came here is because I know next to nothing about watches (I had to look up what a "sweep hand" was) and have had such a variety of info around rarity, value etc that I just wanted to try and get some honest opinion from those who seem to have a reputation as being experts.

    Before this the most valuable watch I've ever owned was about £200....
     
  10. BatDad

    BatDad Jul 24, 2019

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    Have you taken a read of the Speedmaster 101 site - There were some 002's recently sold at auction -

    http://speedmaster101.com/sothebys-speedmaster-sale-july-2019/

    The bracelet and endlinks alone could be in $2-3k range depending on how tight the links are.

    If everything matches up with the serial - you have a very special watch. Be very careful who you let take a look at it.
     
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  11. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Thanks for the info, I had found that link for the sale, and can see the "guide prices", but as someone who's sat in a few auctions (cars are my thing), I know that at least for cars, the selling price and guide price don't necessarily bear much relationship to each other. Is there more of a correlation on guide prices and actual sale prices with watches?

    If it was a rare/unusual car, I'd be on much more comfortable ground..lol
     
  12. Dan S

    Dan S Jul 24, 2019

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    The actual hammer prices with fees are posted on the Sotheby's site.
     
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  13. BatDad

    BatDad Jul 24, 2019

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  14. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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  15. Dan S

    Dan S Jul 24, 2019

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    It's all about condition. Top-notch examples bring exceptional prices.
     
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  16. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    Ok, that's actually really helpful, so fundamentally I need to understand where mine fits in on the whole condition front.

    Guess that brings me back to needing really good pics and ones with the back off..lol
     
  17. ChrisN

    ChrisN Jul 24, 2019

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    Try putting the watch down on a surface close to a window but without too much glare. Put the phone down on an upside down tumbler or half pint glass - whatever gives an image in focus and about 2/3 of the frame. Touch it very gently to take the shot. If you hold your phone or the watch, it's much harder to get a clear shot.

    Mine is a very cheap Nokia and I just took the one below. It's not bad and has fair resolution.
    phone picture.jpg

    Take it to a watchmaker to open it and get the photos. Good luck.

    Cheers, Chris
     
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  18. redpcar

    redpcar Jul 24, 2019

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    Nokia? They still make phones?
     
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  19. Duncan Gafney

    Duncan Gafney Jul 24, 2019

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    I'd not thought of doing that way, managed to get this pic, but need to work out how to get the bracelet out of the way as it's quite tight and doesn't flex much to get a clear view of the back, this looks much clearer.
     
    watch pic 1 stable.jpg
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  20. Davidt

    Davidt Jul 24, 2019

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    Some more pictures are definitely required.

    As a starter, the bracelet and end links look original. Probably £1500 there.

    The watch looks nice but isn't all original, the chrono hand, crown and pushers have certainly be replaced. From the angles I can't tell if the hour/minute hands have as well.

    The bezel is decent bjt not great and the lume looks lighter than I would expect for this period. Better pics would help clarify but going on what we see so far id expect a fair price for a private sale, somewhere between £10k-18k.
     
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