For the Speedmaster Professional, what is the difference between the tritium v. superluminova dials? I am leaning towards a cal. 1861... is it true that all 1861 are superluminova? Further, I read the only difference in the cal. 861 and 1861 is superluminova and a small movement change. If the difference b/w cals. 1861 and 861 is negligible (and the tritium v. superlume isn't a big factor), then does it really matter which one I choose (861 or 1861)? Ahhhh - choices... Thanks!
I think you are a little bit confused about the differences. I'm pretty sure all 861's are tritium and the vast majority of 1861's are later superluminova. Then again, what do I know?
Superluminova has nothing to do with the calibers, it has to do with the luminous material used on the dial and hands. The main difference between 861 and 1861 movements is the finish; 861 was gilded, and 1861 has rhodium finishing. Earlier 861 movements (say, pre-1996 or so) had 17 jewels, while the newer ones had 18 jewels. While it's true that most Speedy Pros with Superluminova lume housed 1861 movements, there are possibly a very few that had the older 861 movements. Omega Speedys are pretty notorious for having transitional or "parts bin specials" that have older elements mixed in with newer elements. So other than the jewel counts and the finishing, there shouldn't be any real differences between 1861 and 861.
yea... that is what i thought @yinzerniner. I just wasn't sure if there was a tritium dial on a cal. 1861 or if all 1861 had superluminova. I am trying to decide best bang for my buck, and from my perspective, it doesn't look like there is a big difference between a good-conditioned 10-30 year old Speedy Pro and BNIB Speedy Pro (aside from superlume/jewels/finishing).
@alam thanks! hmmm, i didn't know the superluminova needed an external light to stimulate the lume... very interesting.
I like the way that Tritium ages going to a mellow yellow. On the left, my 1997 1861 Speedmaster that I bought new so, the markers are fading to a yellow shade. The dial is marked "T Swiss Made T" so, it is Tritium. I think this was the last year before they changed. On the right, a recent Superluminova C3 SM300 build. Superluminova usually comes in C1 or C3 but, there are many types. C3 is greener than C1 (which should be white) but is also much brighter. I don't know how this will age in twenty years but if anyone can show a 1998 Speedmaster, that should give us an idea. Cheers, Chris
@ChrisN "my 1997 1861 Speedmaster" ... so there are cal. 1861 with tritium dials... or is this a re-dial? I was not sure... but I do like the yellowing of the tritium... looks awesome, especially when combined with a leather or nato strap!
As far as I know, the 1861 came in in 1996 and Tritium went out in 1997 so, it's a small window that I happened to buy in. I believe the 861 or 1861 will both be fine for you and as noted above are virtually identical. If you like that yellowing, go for a "T" marked dial and take whichever movement comes with it. On the redial front, it would go the other way so if you're offered an 861 with white markers and no "T" marking then it likely has a new dial. As Tritium was phased out for Superluminova, I doubt anyone would have been able to redial the other way around. Mine has only been Omega serviced so, it should be all original. I hope you find one. I have a few NATO straps but have come to the conclusion that it doesn't suit my Speedy. Here is my list of all watches that look better on NATO (shamelessly cribbed from somewhere else, I think). Start of list: End of list. Agree on the leather though. Cheers, Chris
interesting article. In it was said the tritium is in phosphor coated tubes, so my question is, how was it possible to get a tritium paste? My old Seamaster uses tritium but there are no "tubes". How were watch makers mix a gas into a paste/paint? How did tritium not just "float" away? Sorry for the grade school question, but chemistry was never my strong point.
I believe *some* watches (like the H3 Tactical Watch referred to throughout that article) had tritium in tubes, others had it applied to the dial, like on a speedy.
There is one statement in the above-referenced article that doesn't seem right: "...however Tritium only has a half-life of 12.32 years which means when it reaches its half-life, it will cease to glow." I'm not an expert in Nuclear Physics or the Physics of Light, but I doubt that a tritium-filled vial will stop glowing after 12.32 years. At the half-life, 50% of the original tritium has decayed into other bits & pieces, but 50% of the original tritium still remains and presumably its decay will continue to excite the phosphor coating in the tubes. Maybe at 1/2 the original intensity? And after 25 years, at 1/4 the original intensity?
@ChrisN out of curiosity, how luminous is your 1997 Speedy Pro at night? scale: 1 - 10 (1- can't read dial; 10- very bright luminescence) ... or anyone else with a tritium Speedy Pro (please indicate year). Speedy lume pics always appreciated!
Not very high after nearly 20 years. Here's a shot with new C1/18 year Tritium/new C3. This is directly after fairly strong light exposure so, I would say 8/2/10 on your scale. Of course, the Superluminova doesn't last long as it needs exposure to light. Here after 5 or 10 minutes in a fairly dark room. I would say 4/2/6 Hope this helps. If it must be tritium, have a look in the sales forums. There's one here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/1997-omega-speedmaster-moonwatch-3570-50-tritium-dial-b-p.26650/ Still need a 15 year old Superluminova to compare it against but, I suspect it will be similar to new. If I really needed to read a watch in the pitch black, I would go for backlit LCD or LED but, it's not that critical for me. Cheers, Chris
thanks! yeah, i am still trying to decide whether or not i care if the lume is low... i really like the yellowing of the tritium and how it adds a certain je ne sais quoi to the watch.
I'd go for the Tritium myself. I don't think Tritium dials are available but Superluminova dials are so, have the Tritium and it will mellow further as you own it. Look at some of the guys pictures on here for sixties and seventies models. You will need a watchmaker so, if you go off the Tritium dial/hands have him remove them and keep them in a box until (if) you sell the watch. Here's the price of a new Omega Superluminova dial to replace it and a complete set of hands. So, with a replacement dial/hands, some people might regard it as a Frankenstein watch but, you can always set it back as original. I think you'll stick with the Tritium myself. By the way, I'm surprised how cheap this dial is in comparison to other models. Might be worth me putting one in a box for the future - just in case.
I already own a 2013 Speedy (3570.50) but I just bought a 3590.50 with a tritium dial from the sales forum here. Obviously I've spent too much time looking at vintage Speedies around here . The aged tritium just looks so nice. So now I'm going to have the dial and hands on the newer Speedy converted to a Mitsukoshi... There are quite a few later model (think late 80s to mid-90s) tritium models available in great condition from the trusted dealers around here. At least lately. You'll be able to pick up a very nice one.
