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  1. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 14, 2017

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    IMG_2263.JPG IMG_2258.JPG IMG_2293.PNG The IMG_2256.JPG IMG_2292.JPG

    Long story short I have 8 hours to make a decision on this watch. I am not able to find issues with this piece. The watch ( Pilot) was made in 1940's.
    Watch was serviced about 40 years ago. I am told it is a one owner piece. I apologize for the picture quality, order of viewers and lack of views which may make evaluation not possible. Thanks you.
     
    Edited by a mod Nov 14, 2017
    Mark020 likes this.
  2. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 14, 2017

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    Who is the message from? Who's archives . Verification?
     
  3. JohnSteed

    JohnSteed Nov 14, 2017

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    Where are you!??
     
  4. Gordon Heavyfoot

    Gordon Heavyfoot Nov 14, 2017

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    I'm no expert on these watches but it looks substantially different than the photo in the OVD, especially the tracks. Hands are different. I'd be very careful and wait for the resident experts to chime in. Beautiful watch and a monster for its time, over 40mm. Good luck.
     
  5. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 14, 2017

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    I’m not sure the question. I’m Paul Schwartz. A new member to the Forum and had this piece fall into my lap. If you have any other questions of me feel free to ask.
     
  6. Georgieboy58

    Georgieboy58 Nov 14, 2017

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    This looks strange, what should be the purpose of the outer(second) dial? Can it be turned against the inner one?
    Edit: Just googled CK 2042 and see that these exist I just hadn't seen one yet ::facepalm1::
    But they seem to be from the time before WWII.

    This (or similar) is what was issued to German pilots in 1942:

    SAM_0806_klein.JPG
     
    Edited Nov 14, 2017
  7. kippyk

    kippyk Nov 14, 2017

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    Omega was selling watches to the Nazis in 1942. "Hole" in the archives for military watches....things that make you go hmmmmm.
     
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  8. MaiLollo

    MaiLollo Nov 14, 2017

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    If it's original, it's a spectacular watch. No idea wether it is or not, I would be afraid by the condition of the watch, the case especially... I have 10 yo watches that are in worse condition than that, and I ain't done no wars :D
     
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  9. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 14, 2017

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    The information comes from the museum in Bienn. This is the original document.
     
    F05CCC56-3504-4916-8F35-9CA57A9515DB.jpeg
  10. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 14, 2017

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    That is great to know. Thank you.
     
  11. Georgieboy58

    Georgieboy58 Nov 14, 2017

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  12. mac_omega

    mac_omega Nov 14, 2017

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    Yes, I am here...

    @medsia324 : I will buy the watch if you don´t - just shoot me a PM
     
  13. COYI

    COYI Nov 14, 2017

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    Did Omega specifically make watches for the German military in WW2? I thought Omega prided themselves on helping Britain win the war.
     
    MaiLollo likes this.
  14. MaiLollo

    MaiLollo Nov 14, 2017

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    Wow, it looks that sometimes when things look too good to be true, well they aren't :)
     
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  15. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 14, 2017

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    So very true.
     
  16. bubba48

    bubba48 Nov 14, 2017

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    It is not the first watch sold to the Nazis by Omega

    omega 2318MI (0).jpg

    omega 2318MI (7).jpg

    omega 2318MI (8).jpg

    omega 2318MI (10).JPG


    At the time I gave to Omega only the serial number of the movement and it matches perfectly with the number of the caseback.
    So I asked for a confirmation and ...

    "Dear Mr Xxxxxxxx,
    Yes. Our archives well confirm that this serial number 9.657.174 was delivered to the German Army.
    Kind regards.
    Alain Monachon
    OMEGA MUSEUM"


    But Mr. Knirim was not convinced...

    "...
    - At first I would not believe in this story!?
    - At second I have to accept, what Omega answers in their letter.
    - As I know, the German Military did not order directly from Swiss watch manufacturers, only by importers.
    - As I know, there were no official supplies by Omega to the Wehrmacht. Omega is proud of not supporting German Military!
    - They only, as I know, did supply 8 day movements to Askania for aircraft clocks before 1939.
    => But if this letter is legit (I do not see the whole), what do the archives really say? Omega used customer numbers, What number is used? What does the customer file say about this number?
    The reason for these questions are of language: There was never a 'German Army'! There was a 'Wehrmacht', a 'Deutsches Heer' the 'Kriegsministerium' a 'Waffenamt', or maybe units... The late war authorities did order watches via the German company Wagner...
    => So who did order this watch, to whom was it shipped?? Was it a private order by an officer? Questions the the Omega letter underwriter!
    Greetings
    Konrad Knirim"


    And this is the Omega's reply

    "Dear Mr. Xxxxxxx,
    There is no doubt that Mr. Knirim is well informed however he, like many experts in the past, based his impressions on the information available at the time.
    During the renovation of the museum and archives we have found many new documents that shed new light on our history which is why we launched the “Extract of the Archive” service to coincide with the renovation. Mr. Knirim is to some degree correct however all Official German buyers from that period had documents relating to the Branch of the German military they were working for and as such it is possible to determine which “branch” of the military, if any, the agent was working for.
    In the case of your watch the archives give the client code which corresponds to “Armée Allemande”. In French we use Armée as a generic term for all armed forces however as the documents are in English we used the literal translation of German Army.
    Mr Knirim, statements that there were no direct purchases is only partially factual as the German government sent buying envoys to Switzerland with specifications, numbers and budgets for the purchase of watches, the agents were “civilian” however their orders were very specific and stamped by the relevant German government branch.
    Hope this helps to clear any confusion you may have about your watch and the Extract of the Archives you received.
    Have a nice day and kind regards.
    Alain Monachon
    OMEGA MUSEUM - Archivist
    "
     
  17. jakeh417

    jakeh417 Nov 14, 2017

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    Oh wow, that's a very interesting piece of history and information that Omega was willing to answer.
     
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  18. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 15, 2017

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  19. medsia324

    medsia324 Nov 15, 2017

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    medsia324Just now
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    I was not able to do a thorough research of this watch as I had little time to make a decision. I appreciate the research you have have provided. I am applying for an Extract of the Archives for this watch and hope I can provide additional information to share with the Forum. Can you site any books that reference your research or is this information a collaboration of watch experts, or both?
     
  20. bubba48

    bubba48 Nov 15, 2017

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    It was an occasional purchase, followed by a correspondence exchange with Konrad Knirim and the Omega archive after I received the extract.