Hi guys May I know your take on this watch? The watch was briefly discussed here in the forum: https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-watches-on-ebay.3584/page-30 Seller claims he got it from a son of a military man from Argentina. Here are the pics. The dial, case and movement seem worn out. Here are the examples found on Sala: This watch seems to be a mix of the examples found in Sala. The hands are similar to the first Sala pic. The fonts (UG, numbers) and the chrono pushers are similar to the second pic though there's a hyphen between U and G. Is this one of the many fakes that @woodwkr2 talks about in the above thread? What do you guys think?
The reference number 32404 corresponds with a reference depicted in Sala, which is a Compur 30, a precursor to the Compax line with two sub dials. This reference has a few characteristic features including the blue stick hands, and a chrome case with very skinny, elegant lugs. I was able to find a few other examples: Above: https://www.dorotheum.com/en/l/7242184/ Above: https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lot...universal_geneve_chronograph-26.1.20-catawiki The reference 32415 and possibly 224105 are the only known references for the Argentine Air Force watches. Though this second example above is clearly a redial, it does help us to establish the serial number range for this reference, in this case 830752. The serial on the Argentine Air Force piece in question is 803824. Consulting Sala again for the serial number table, we find that 800,000-900,000 were fabricated between 1941-1942. The known Argentine Air Force pieces typically have serial numbers in the 1,100,00s. Indeed the example below is 1171479 with a reference of 32415. Above: https://www.bernardinimilano.com/products/universal-geneve-military-chrongraph The problem with the watch in question (reference 3204, serial 803824) is that it was likely fabricated prior to the creation of the Argentine Air Force. Indeed this Spanish language forum post lays out the history of the Argentine Air Force, as does wikipedia. https://www.foroderelojes.es/showth...-32415-el-cronógrafo-de-los-pilotos-de-Pulqui https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Air_Force In brief, the Airforce fell under the purview of the Argentine Army until January 4th 1945: From wikipedia: The first step towards establishing the Air Force as a separate branch of the Armed Forces was taken during the 11th of February 1944 to establish the Aeronautical Command-in-Chief (Comando en Jefe de Aeronáutica) directly under the mandate of the Department of War. This later became the Argentine Air Force by decree on the 4th of January 1945, which also created the Secretary of Aeronautics [es] (Secretaría de Aeronáutica).[2][4] In conjunction with this new decree and founding of the Argentine Air Force, there was a change in the Air Force badge: (above: Airforce badge pre January 4th 1945) (above: Argentine Airforce badge modern. Eg. post January 4th 1945) Even allowing for some wiggle room in the UG serial numbers (we cannot take the table at 100% face value as UG was known to use "old" parts in the fabrication of newer models) it seems an unlikely pairing of a logo developed in 1944 or 1945 on a watch that dates to 1941-1942. Finally, there's a problem with the bridge as all known UG references featured a modified bridge on a calibre 285 which was designed to accommodate two subdials. The Argentine Airforce watches are lacking the minute counter bridge and gearing, which leads me to hypothesize that the large central 0-60 counter is a seconds indicator. In sum: I believe that the watch in question began life as a UG Compur 30 reference 3204 with calibre 285 with the elegant stick hands. At some point the Argentine Airforce dial was transplanted and the hour recording chronograph gearing was removed, leaving the original, double armed bridge empty. Indeed the seller mentions that the movement runs, but the pushers and central hand do not function. Finally, and most obvious, at least one of the pushers appears to be an incorrect replacement, though I have doubts about the crown and other pusher as well. Interestingly the dial itself may be from a legitimate 32415, though I'd certainly want to see it in person before concluding.
Another one emerged: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/255857063109Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network