Hi all,

I hope you had a great Easter.

I have been offered this 105.012-64 locally. Seller is a bit optimistic on the price but I'm sure something can be worked out. I have just gotten into Speedmasters this year so please excuse my ignorance. From my limited research:

- Serial is 22825XXX which in the right range for a 105.012-64. Caseback stamp supports this.
- Nice ghost DON which should be correct to the watch.
- T SWISS T dial which is correct for a -64.
- Bracelet is a modern replacement 849. I hope it hasn't ruined the case.
- I understand it is difficult to tell if the hands are service on this model. They appear too clean but the patina matches the dial so might be correct.
- Pushers may be service? Haven't quite got my head around them yet, but they do not look "fat".
- Case looks razor sharp.

Now the seller wants $14K USD for this watch following advice from a dealer. I know this is crazy money for this watch since @Spacefruit sold a beautiful example for under $10K USD earlier this year. Where would you price this watch keeping in mind it has not been worn since 2004 and would probably require a full service.

Any comments or opinions are appreciated! I have been yearning for a 321 since the purchase of my -69 so hopefully this is good timing.

P.S. sorry about the quality of the photos.

 

Quite difficult to find a -64.
My vote : 'good' on the SM101 price chart.
That is a nice 'ghost' bezel.
Pushers indeed look like replacements (they should stick out as far as the crown, and these go beyond)...(crown too?)...not sure what to subtract for that, but my feeling is his price is close.

 

IMHO, the crown is certainly a replacement, but to me the pushers seem correct in size with the fat neck as seen in original. I agree that the way they stick out is a little strange. Nice faded DON bezel and correct narrow-T professional dial. Case and caseback are in pretty good shape too.

+1 on being "good" on the chart.

 

it seems to be a nice watch, but the pics are quite poor IMHO.

 

I think the hands are probably original. The chrono seconds hand is certainly not a service hand. No way to be certain if the pushers are replacements. I think they are correct, not modern service, but need to be measured.

Not really understanding the point of the thread. OP has done his 105.012 research, has a recent sale from a respected collector for comparison, thinks the seller’s price is “crazy”; it’s not btw. Take your talking points up with owner and as you say, work it out.

 

I guess you have answered both points of the thread: confidence that he is applying his new knowledge correctly; & price guidance.

 

I think the angle of the shots may be making the pushers look high. The pictures don't help but it seems to have nice fat pusher tubes. Should have a 24 tooth crown (although I've heard one or two members suggest a 32 tooth crown can be correct... not convinced of that myself). Nice clear engraving on the case back. Compared to some that are 'knocking about' on line, I think it's quite a nice looking watch personally.

I wouldn't say it's a crazy price but it is a bit above the latest SM101 'good'. I think for that money he should be offering it serviced, correct and with an Omega Extract of the Archives.

We've seen some bad examples of this reference offered lately at auction for lower money and I think better photographs may make a difference with this watch.

 

For a relatively new member with very few posts - I’d like to commend this post. Isn’t this exactly the type of thing that resonates with seasoned collectors?
Due diligence, independent assessment that requests validation from more experienced collectors?

Bravo @zwjk

 

Although to be fair - the market could have moved in the last quarter. That certainly seems to be the case on the ed’s.

 

Yes...very true.... and we're both hoping it has "moved" up a bit mate!

 

Sorry if I offended anyone with my thread; I did not mean to create any animosity from my thread.

I am new to this game, and although Speedmaster101 provides excellent information I wanted re-assurance that my assessment based on that information was correct.

Based on your posts, I think the watch is almost all correct. There is some doubt surrounding the crown, but I'm sure I can source a replacement if I am patient.

Clearly I was wrong with the value assessment, but its hard for me to comprehend that this particular watch is worth circa $5k more than the one originally sold by @Spacefruit. So Speedmaster101 places a 'good' condition watch for $13k USD, what would everyone think is a fair price for this one?

Thanks everyone for their opinions - I really appreciate it.

 

I don't think anyone should be offended mate and with the poor quality pictures it's difficult to know if you were too far wrong??? Certainly there are one or two issues.... starting with the crown and a bit of uncertainty regarding the pushers. If you feel it's top heavy price wise that's OK. It's a valid question, particularly as the watch has no recent service or extract from Omega. You have a right to have an opinion on the price. It's your money being spent, not ours.

 

Comparing my sale to this is useful, but highlights why I enjoy this hobby. It’s all about the attractiveness of the watch - even with flaws or faults.

Also when comparing watches, not only compare the watch but compare the seller too, or at least his motives, and the possible origin of the watch.

I sell to create space, and at what I think of as a fair market price where buyer and seller are happy. I set a price where I think I will have three buyers at my price within 24 hours. A dealer, or in this case a private seller who is motivated by getting the highest possible price at all costs, these are going to be different. He wants the absolute maximum, and is happy to negotiate down from what many will see as a kite (a high flying price). If he has consulted a dealer for a price, then he doesn’t know what he is doing and will need gentle guidance and assurance that you are not ripping him off, showing him comparisons from the market.

The worst possible seller is a greedy ignorant private, advised by a dealer who may or may not be an idiot, and who cannot take photos. (I use the word greedy and ignorant here without malice - it might be his last asset and he has to live of the proceeds for some time. Doesn’t matter, we have to view his listing the same with or without judgement).

The op watch ticks all the boxes - fat neck pushers, DO90 bezel, correct dial. But it is poorly presented - bad photos and still on the wrong bracelet - coupled with an asking price that seems to assume it is serviced and better condition than it is. This price is unlikely to have several buyers competing for it.

Both the watch I sold, and this watch have plenty of issues that would stop a TrippleC* buyer - but each must be looked at to see if we find it attractive, in spite of or even because of these characteristics.

I can’t see this watch talking to me, as it is. But could it be fettled into a watch I like? Perhaps.

Things to check:

Fits the of pushers, especially the lower pusher. Blow up the photo - ask for a better view of it. I see what might be glue. But bad photo so could be wrong.
The crystal is well worn, I hope. Try and see the dial properly and also see the top of the crystal to check aberrations are caused by the crystal and not on the dial.
Check the plots. I cannot tell if they are dirty, lumpy or uneven. Make sure you like them.
Check for an extract - this is super important at this level of price/condition - without it then no deal. You are paying a lot, and part of the value will be the extract.
Check that case - it’s not perfect but the photos don’t let me see quite the condition.

Get better photos. Daylight and in focus. It’s not like he is asking $5,000. He wants top money so he should give you top photos.

Although prices have appeared to be weaker, they are not actually. It’s just that lower quality watches are being offered at prices more appropriate to higher condition previous sales. So I would not say the price on this watch is crazy - just a high asking price set for negotiation.

Just make sure you like it before you buy it, and don’t be shy in your offer.

(*TrippleC buyers”. = Condition!Condition!Condition!)

 

Thanks @Spacefruit. I was hoping you would chime in.

I will definitely inspect this watch first and take better photos before I hand over any money. To be honest I don't think the seller is capable of taking better photos (not trying to be malicious but that's how it is sometimes).

I have put in an offer to the seller (pending inspection of course). I wasn't shy about it! He will get back to me in a couple of days, as it is a shared inheritance between him and his siblings.

Thanks again everyone for their input. I'm generally a Rolex guy. If you told me you spent this kind of money on a Speedmaster a year ago, I would've laughed at you, but I sort of get it now. The Omega enthusiast community is much friendlier and open than the Rolex community. Since I consider most vintage Rolexes to be in the realm of unobtainium, I truly have become a Rolex refugee.

 

Thank 'fakk' for that! There's no "malice" like well informed, technically accurate, articulate "malice".

 

Hi guys,

Inspected the watch this afternoon and was quite disappointed in its condition

From the seller's initial photos, it looked like all the lume plots were intact but most of the lume plots have degraded.

Watch winds and runs. Chrono works. Bottom pusher a bit sticky but fine.

Generally the watch is in good condition, but I think it would be a good candidate for a relume.

The seller has come down to 8800 USD, but I'm not sure if its even worth that much now.

If I bought it, I would definitely have it relumed by Adam Lewis @ Lewis Watch Co.

Now my dilemma is, would you rather have a relumed 105.012 or a dark chocolate 145.022.

Some photos below - would love your thoughts again

Some more photos in my Dropbox - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gy76l0cjljnk5p3/AABi0eudF7mlknsS6JeQjl5Ca?dl=0

Sorry about the orientation of the photos.

 

Making me question the dealer. From 14k to 8,8k in a heartbeat.

With a good relume work this will look good.

I assume you are looking for a watch to wear. Choose a watch that smiles at you =)

 

Go with 105.012..

 

Yeah, 105.012. I'd ditch that bracelet in a heart beat though...
The 105.012 has a 321 calibre man, if you can afford it then why not?!

 

There's a relumed 105.012 for sale on this forum if you have not seen it yet