What do you guys think of this Bulova Chrono, same Cairelli case, caseback as the the Marinestar, same Valjoux 7740 mvmt. The dial is special, it only has 1 red star... It is not a refinish. Any idea what this watch could be?

Thanks for all in advance !

 

I have no idea, I've never seen one with only one star. It is a good looking watch though.

 

No idea but f’n cool!

 

Valjoux 7731 (Venus 188 essentially) non-date manual wind powered the “original” version, among other notable differences. Can’t tell gor sure about the case from photos but doesn’t seem to me to match the cairelli/EP/bulova trio profile & dimensions.

@LouS or others may know more.

 

Well let me pound a nail into this coffin. I contacted an expert ... he says this is fake ... Avoid.

 

Larry, thank you! Your help is always invaluable.

 

Then this is a fake as well? https://www.ebay.it/itm/402264642039Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network It's the same watch but, from examining the details and defects, it's a different example of it. I'm far from an expert and surely less so than posters here. And my experience with sellers from the ad's origin country leave me highly skeptical of the validity of any vintage watch sold from there, but this seems legit. If not then someone sure went to a lot of trouble to fake these using movements that are nearly impossible to find (except by buying watches that already have them, none of which are cheap), fitting them to proper cases, crafting fake dials, etc. These dials are expertly done, but vary slightly from the norm by having one big star. Why would someone go to the effort to fake a dial that doesn't exist (as posited here) when they obviously have the skills to reproduce a correct copy? The case back looks perfect, right down to the correct serial number stamped inside the case back. That font is a Swiss font of that era with the 8's having a lower section comprised of a perfect circle, with a sideways C attached to the top. That's very rare, and the other numbers are all of that font style. This guy is good!

 

Yeah but for less money you can have an original, undisputed one. I wouldn’t toss any money at these one star versions

 

Pics from the eBay watch for immortality:

 

If I were a collector of these and had deeper pockets, I'd be looking seriously at adding one of these to my collection.

 

Just reiterating .... the pictured watch is FAKE FAKE FAKE...For readers too lazy to read from the top.

 

And in any case, that dial and lume are just horrible... as someone has pointed out, for not much more you can get the the genuine star circle - or if you like the three register, then the EP Monte Carlos are much nicer - heres mine which I had for sale earlier in summer on here, for much less:



I will say though, the date change is a PITA on all of these as it’s non-quick set...

 

Forgive me, Larry, as I hadn’t seen how my discussion of this watch would elicit an outburst from anyone. If you read my post you’ll see that I’ve obviously read this thread, as I address it directly. Why is it then that you’re accusing me of not doing so and baselessly insulting me, calling me lazy? If you wish to further personally insult me then please do so in a Personal Message and we can hash it out there. This forum isn’t the place for it.

The OP asked for thoughts on this watch. Surely he’s moved on, but the watch remains. A new owner (so the seller tells me) has this listed for sale with more photos so we have an opportunity to learn more about this unique watch.

Larry, why is it that your expert claims this is a fake? Can you help here by providing details? Darlinboy’s post seems to imply that Bulova 7740 versions didn’t exist but they did, only with a white dial until this example. And he states he thinks the case is incorrect, but I’ll discuss why I think it is. Perhaps he’s comparing it to the Cairelli case made for Zenith, which differed by using longer back wrench notches.

When compared to the ExPark and Bulova cases this one appears spot on. The diameter of 43mm and lug spacing of 22mm are correct. The shape is perfect. The bezel appears absolutely identical to that on Bulova’s white version and is clockwise unidirectional with 60 clicks, the seller confirms. The pushers look the same and it has an identical unsigned crown, and it screws down. This makes for very meticulous faking. And look at that back detail. It’s identical to Bulova’s. That’d be very difficult, time consuming, and expensive to duplicate. The hands are correct except that the seconds hand is white, which is typical when used with a black dial. And of course the movement is correct; right down to the perfect milling out of “Breitling Watch LTD” from the bridge, as the Bulova and ExPark 7740’s had, and only them I believe.

This only leaves the dial, and I largely agree with khanmu’s view of it though I wouldn’t go so far as to call it horrible. The subdials are done with perfectly machined concentric circles and perfect print, though the print is different than used on their white version. This alone is very hard to produce without expensive equipment, proper training, and skill.

I propose that this was an example or mockup by Bulova’s design dept. that didn’t get the Go Ahead for production. Surely different designs were considered before final production. Why go to the expense of producing perfect dials for designs that failed final approval? Their design artists were probably tasked with producing rough ideas and this was one. They considered a black dial, and tried one large red star instead of several small ones in a circle. After all, they did call it Marine Star and not Marine Stars. The BULOVA signature varies by having the “B” larger than the other letters. They’re the same height in the white production version, but they did use this big B signature in other watches of the era. Two examples are the Deep Sea “Surfboard” chrono and the Oceanographer Snorkel 666. The perimeter minutes numbers are mostly the same with some major quality and design differences. The 6 is different. The “1” and “0” in the number 10 appear to be different heights, unlike the production versions. Comparing their position on the dial when compared to the seconds numbers around the perimeter of the dial you can see that they’re in slightly different locations. And the lume is hand applied unlike the machine applied lume on the final production versions. Surely someone with the skill to reproduce other parts of this watch so well would’ve done a better job here. And they would’ve reproduced the same dial instead of one that differed so much that it could be labelled a fake. I think that Bulova’s design artists manually made this dial in their shop, along with the white dial version and perhaps others. Considering that they probably only had a few of these movements (perhaps purchased from ExPark when they went belly up) only one dial was approved for reasons of economy. And that’s the dial that money was spent on to professional fabricate.

Then somehow this sample watch made its way to the market. Maybe an employee kept it for himself and it was later put up for sale.

This scenario makes much more sense to me than the idea that someone faked such an obscure watch. It just doesn’t seem plausible or logical that a skilled artist would spend the time and money to do that. The premise that a watch that was produced in such limited numbers by a brand not considered to be top tier, and collected by so few be faked makes no sense to me. This is especially unbelievable when you consider that they created a version of this watch that doesn't exist. Unfortunately unless someone in the know comes forth or shows documentation we’ll probably never know.

 

One thought I had was why Bulova would make more than one mockup of this. Going back and examining all the photos gave me the answer. I was probably wrong in concluding that the OP’s watch was a different example from the watch for sale on eBay. I observed different scratches, but these may have occurred in the ensuing months or may be on the plastic film that’s been added to the back. Only when viewing the movement do I see that it’s the same watch. Or at least the same movement, and it’s highly unlikely that someone removed this movement and put it into another watch of the same design. Identical scratches can be seen, and the rotational position of every screw is the same. Also the serial number on the outside of the back is the same 07920. This is conforming to the SN’s seen on other examples from both ExPark and Bulova, being in the range of 07xxx to 08xxx (where the x’s are other unique numbers, with a total of 5 numbers). Every example I see has different numbers whereas these two have the same number.

This number 07920 is neither the earliest nor the latest number seen in these watches. I suspect that when assembling this example for design approval a case was pulled from their stock bin at random.

I agree with others that if you want a bonafide example of this watch then go with one with known provenance. But the OP asked for thoughts on this watch and I’ve given mine. I can’t say it’ll be a good investment. At this point with what’s known (or not known) it’s surely not as good an investment as the known examples. I wouldn’t give anywhere near what the eBay seller is asking. Though Larry states to avoid this watch, at the right price I’d consider buying it if I collected these. I do have a Breitling 7740 watch and love it.

 

@Lancaster ... The reason I posted as I did was because people often don’t read from the top and jump to odd conclusions. This has been an issue over on the UG sub forum. The guy I discussed this with is a Collector/dealer/broker with a great reputation and super picky about what he acquires. Higher end Bulova is one of his focuses. I don’t have the correspondence anymore, but he was very adamant about this dial. He’s never steered me wrong.

 

Indeed. The vast majority of fakes are of watches that actually do exist, not watches that could exist. For a faker to put that much time, talent and effort into a watch, then stamp the dial with something guaranteed to set off alarm bells--it doesn't compute.

 

Succinctly put. And highlighted another typo as well! I think they're all cleared up now.