Thoughts on a 145.012-67

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

Hi, I've been a long-term lurker but haven't posted here before. I've enjoyed watches for decades and had quite a few Speedy's as well, but this is my first 321. To be clear I'm NOT selling it and it's already mine, so I don't need an value. I wanted either a 105.012 or a 145.012 but prefer the screw-in pushers and the flat chrono-hand even though I realise they're not worth as much as the 105.012s. I ended up with a 145.012-67 SP which needed some work to get it into the shape in the pics. It was delivered to Japan 04/1968 according to the Archives.

The reason I'm posting here is to discuss the issues of what level of restoration is deemed desirable. I know there are a lot of die-hard originality fans who'd rather have green flaking lume than re-lumed dial and hands etc. What I want is a Speedy just like the astronauts wore on the moon BUT in a good enough shape not to look like it should receive a "coup de grace" or go directly into quarantine and I want it to be in excellent mechanical repair.

I'll tell you what was done to this watch later but would like to hear your opinions on the watch first!

EDIT 1 November 2017:

My watchmaker Christian Dannemann (watchguy.co.uk) has done a blog-entry on this project here:
http://watchguy.co.uk/restoration-omega-speedmaster-145-012-67/#comment-951692

Furthermore I've added some info on the married set here:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/thoughts-on-a-145-012-67.65807/page-3#post-828170

eugeneandresson · Oct 30, 2017

That's one lovely watch. Congratulations. Wear in good health.

I am no expert (still a relative beginner) but I would say :
- new crystal
- relumed hands
- relumed dial (I have my doubts...if so its a very good job...am happy to be wrong here)

The case looks sharp, the movement clean without damaged screw heads, and the pushers/crown look 'too lazy to whip out MWO' 😀

Desirability of restoration : mmmmmmm, I'm in the 'like em original' clan, so mechanics first and foremost. Some of the gnarliest degradation gives the most character. I may forgive hands that have been redone as long as they are not too perfectly matched as they very rarely are after decades of temperature change with humidity being close to the crystal. I quite like it when the lume has degraded out of the hands too, depending. If a dial is superb but the lume has all disappeared then I would be happy with an immaculate relume, but nothing less. No polishing or brushing of the case. That's it. But that's just me ... at the end of the day, its your happiness that counts.

Welcome...and thanks for starting an interesting discussion 👍

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

eugeneandresson
.....Welcome...and thanks for starting an interesting discussion 👍

Thanks! Indeed the crystal is new, the hands have been relumed and I promise to tell what else has been done to the Speedy after a few more opinions.

Igora · Oct 30, 2017

Case was polished but not much!

Nathan1967 · Oct 30, 2017

I’m also new to OF and view from that perspective, I echo Eugene’s comments- I’d be really intrigued to see the “before” shots by way of comparison.
It looks to me like you have a great watch - its condition looks appropriate to its age. Great dial, (don’t think it’s a relume from your photos) and slight fade to the bezel - it has charm and character. Movement serial is correct for a 145.012 67.

Q- have you had parts in the movement reconditioned/remade by any chance?

Q- did you buy it as a full set?

All the best

Nathan

mr_yossarian · Oct 30, 2017

These dials..I've seen them only on 145.012s. Dark glossy laquer. Lucky bastard 😀 Mine was delivered April '68 too.

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

Igora
Case was polished but not much!

Hi, I don't think it's been polished but I didn't own it since new.

Nathan1967 · Oct 30, 2017

mr_yossarian
These dials..I've seen them only on 145.012s. Dark glossy laquer. Lucky bastard 😀 Mine was delivered April '68 too.

There are Speedmasters and then there are Speedmasters! Fantastic example Ralf!

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

Nathan1967
//// intrigued to see the “before” shots......Great dial, (don’t think it’s a relume from your photos) and slight fade to the bezel - it has charm and character. Movement serial is correct for a 145.012 67........
Nathan

Thanks for your comments and I promise to reveal more soon.....

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

mr_yossarian
These dials..I've seen them only on 145.012s. Dark glossy laquer. Lucky bastard 😀 Mine was delivered April '68 too.

What a beauty!

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

So without stating a value, if any of you saw this watch for sale without further information, except that it was running "strong" 😕 and the chrono was working well, would you be interested or are there aspects of the watch which trouble you?

mr_yossarian · Oct 30, 2017

maxbelg
Hi, I don't think it's been polished but I didn't own it since new.

neither do I

mr_yossarian · Oct 30, 2017

Nathan1967
There are Speedmasters and then there are Speedmasters! Fantastic example Ralf!

Will bring it in November 😀

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

I'll make it interesting now: I bought my 145.012-67 via E-Bay from Italy and ended up with a Speedy in terrible shape: over-polished case, case back, scratched dial, badly repainted hands and a movement in bad shape with lots of non-original screws and a scratched movement etc. At least I didn't pay too much. Instead of selling it I decided to have it "restored". I got a dial, case, case back all from 145.012s mostly off the bay and a 321 donor movement from a non-Speedy from 1965. I sent all of this to my watchmaker and ended up with the beauty you have seen. My watchmaker relumed the hands and the dial as well (expertly!) and used parts from the donor movement to whip my Speedy into shape. I then got a nice 1116/575 bracelet and a box and papers from 1967 and voila a beauty! I sold off the old parts (full disclosure) to recoup part of the cost.

The point of this post was to show that we don't usually know what happened to the Speedy's we buy. They might have undergone major restoration without us knowing. The real question is whether it matters. My Speedy has all correct parts and could have left the factory as is. If reluming is done as well as this, we end up with the same beauty but without lume which can fall off and end up in the movement.

Food for thought..... I'm eagerly awaiting your opinions! Now that you know, has my Speedy lost your interest?

EDIT: I don't actually know whether the donor movement is from a Speedy or another 321 Omega watch as I don't have an extract of the archives for the donor movement. Only reason I think it's from a non-Speedy is because it came with a different crown attached.

mr_yossarian · Oct 30, 2017

maxbelg
I'll make it interesting now: I bought my 145.012-67 via E-Bay from Italy and ended up with a Speedy in terrible shape: over-polished case, case back, scratched dial, badly repainted hands and a movement in bad shape with lots of non-original screws and a scratched movement etc. At least I didn't pay too much. Instead of selling it I decided to have it "restored". I got a dial, case, case back all from 145.012s mostly off the bay and a 321 donor movement from a non-Speedy from 1965. I sent all of this to my watchmaker and ended up with the beauty you have seen. My watchmaker relumed the hands and the dial as well (expertly!) and used parts from the donor movement to whip my Speedy into shape. I then got a nice 1116/575 bracelet and a box and papers from 1967 and voila a beauty! I sold off the old parts (full disclosure) to recoup part of the cost.

The point of this post was to show that we don't usually know what happened to the Speedy's we buy. They might have undergone major restoration without us knowing. The real question is whether it matters. My Speedy has all correct parts and could have left the factory as is. If reluming is done as well as this, we end up with the same beauty but without lume which can fall off and end up in the movement.

Food for thought..... I'm eagerly awaiting your opinions! Now that you know, has my Speedy lost your interest?

Leaving the unrelated papers aside. Buying the sellers is crucial.

Nathan1967 · Oct 30, 2017

Ok, very interesting! It’s clear to me that you had the vision and determination to see through your project. It’s also clear that you have a great watchmaker.
Is the Watch a frankenstein? No, because you can’t see the “joins” and the “scars”.
Does it matter that it’s an amalgamation of Parts? Not unless you sell it, then full disclosure would morally be required I think
Would this impact the value? Mmm not sure, would probably limit the market
Is the Watch you set out to buy? Yes, mission accomplished, enjoy wearing it.

bgrisso · Oct 30, 2017

nice relume on the dial and hands. A lot of the relume that I see ends up looking completely homogeneous, like a slab of foundation make up, without any texture or variation, this looks much better.
What are you expenses like, ballpark, compared to just buying a nice original example? Was your approach a significant savings?
I think watch projects are fun and can be enjoyable. What happens down the road I think can be slightly more of a concern.
This one at least would be obvious as a project watch to anyone who ordered an extract....
Anyhow I think it looks very nice and if you enjoy it, then mission accomplished.

Dgercp · Oct 30, 2017

The watch looks beautiful, congratulations.
Your post brings up some interesting, almost philosophical issues.
I thought the dial lume could have been original, but I am less expert than many here.
And yes, if you can't tell if the lume is original or not, does it really matter?
HOWEVER, if it looks original, but you know it is not original, well, for me that would change everything.
Then I might be a lot less happy. So, maybe ignorance is bliss?

The great news is as our speedies age and the lume flakes off, there are now really great lumers around
to restore our treasures.

BenBagbag · Oct 30, 2017

I like what you did here. It is inherently a franken (not a marriage) as the movement is not a speedy movement. We "see the scars" so to speak.

Also you mentioned that you have an extract that it was shipped to Japan in '68. Is that true?

maxbelg · Oct 30, 2017

Nathan1967
Ok, very interesting! It’s clear to me that you had the vision and determination to see through your project. It’s also clear that you have a great watchmaker.
Is the Watch a frankenstein? No, because you can’t see the “joins” and the “scars”.
Does it matter that it’s an amalgamation of Parts? Not unless you sell it, then full disclosure would morally be required I think
Would this impact the value? Mmm not sure, would probably limit the market
Is the Watch you set out to buy? Yes, mission accomplished, enjoy wearing it.

Thanks for these comments. I don't intend selling but you never know in future. The point is that we often don't know what happened to the watches we buy. The watchmaker is Christian Dannemann: watchguy.co.uk

Thoughts on a 145.012-67

maxbelg

eugeneandresson

maxbelg

Igora

Nathan1967

mr_yossarian

maxbelg

Nathan1967

maxbelg

maxbelg

maxbelg

mr_yossarian

mr_yossarian

maxbelg

mr_yossarian

Nathan1967

bgrisso

Dgercp

BenBagbag

maxbelg

Similar threads

Seeking Advice on a 145.012-67 "Restoration"

Advice on a 145.012 Speedie

Need help on a 145.022. Any red flags on this Speedy?

New member...needing some advice on a 145.014 speedy

145.012 67 feedback request

Omega Speedmaster 145.012-67/68 on an auction this week!