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Thoughts - Constellation serial/case/caliber match up

  1. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 14, 2016

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    Here is the data:

    168.005
    Cal. 564
    Serial # beginning in 34, range
    Onyx insert markers

    Do these work together? Very new to this, so just trying to get a few opinions. Thanks
     
  2. cristos71

    cristos71 Jan 14, 2016

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    Serial puts it around 1972 which seems very late for both a 168.005 and a cal 564, which are more early to mid 1960´s. The 168.005 is an often faked case so I think you should proceed with extreme caution until you have vet some pictures here.
     
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  3. Peemacgee

    Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 14, 2016

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    From an earlier thread I believe that the onyx inset markers stopped in the 24m range
    And Cristos is right - I think the 564 went up to about 68/69
    Likely to be 700 series after that
    Pics would be good to check out the watch
     
  4. hoipolloi

    hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Jan 14, 2016

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    Omega stopped making 168.005 around 28 mil range.
     
  5. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 14, 2016

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    Movement is likely lifted from a later, possibly C-case, Connie.
    What is your call Hoi?
     
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  6. Peemacgee

    Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 14, 2016

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    But the 34xx and the 564 don't match up
    Could be a typo and be 24xx in which case it all fits together
     
  7. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 14, 2016

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    Thanks everyone .. So the big question, let's say case is good, dial is good, movement on its own is good - what does a lifted/replaced movement do to the value? From my time looking around, it feels hard to find all of these things even individually, let alone together in one piece.
     
  8. Peemacgee

    Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 14, 2016

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    Movt not good if it's 34m and a 564
     
  9. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 14, 2016

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    That's what I was hoping, but I have photo of movement confirming #3446.
     
  10. Peemacgee

    Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 14, 2016

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    Can you post the pics?
     
  11. Peemacgee

    Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 14, 2016

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    ah!
    just checked Demond's site
    the 564 was in a C case up to 71 -my mistake
    so it could be a C-case movt
     
  12. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 14, 2016

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    Thanks for everyones' input, both public and private. Based on the feedback I am going to wait here and see if anyone of you have a weak moment to offer one of your excellent specimens for sale! :whistling:
     
  13. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 14, 2016

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    This is about the highest serial number I've ever seen on a cal. 564:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    After this, I think the cal. 1001 or 1011 movements were used for date-only movements. The cal. 751 day-date continued for another few years in the Constellation and Seamaster Chronometers. I have seen serial numbers up to the 34M range on the 751's.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
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  14. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 14, 2016

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    At its worse you could have a franken movement as well as a franken watch. Would be nice to see pictures.
     
  15. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 14, 2016

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    BTW why don't just ask George regarding your concerns about the movement?

    @Kringkily
     
  16. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 14, 2016

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    Wanted to get some outside opinions first
     
  17. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 14, 2016

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    I didn't know that the watch was for sale here. I found the listing and the movement looks correct to me, but I've never seen a serial anywhere near this high on a cal. 564. However, the rotor assembly on the 56X/75X models changed around 1970. This watch has the newer assembly and rotor which leads me to believe that it is a very late model cal. 564. Maybe one of the last ones.

    I know that the Ref. 168.005 was in the Omega catalog through 1970 at least. I have seen several 1972 catalogs and it is not in those. It is possible that it was a special order only item after 1970.

    It could also be that the movement was a factory replacement made in 1972 to replace an earlier cal. 564 movement that was defective.

    One last clue, mesh watchbands like that were popular in Japan in the early 1970's. They were produced locally under license for several high-end brands. I have a very similar one on an IWC. At that time there were a lot of watch models not available in general catalogs that were only sold in Japan.

    You would need to get an extract from the Omega archives to confirm any of the above.

    Another Omega mystery,
    gatorcpa
     
  18. Peemacgee

    Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 15, 2016

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    so from a possible 'dodgy' watch -it could become a quite 'unusual' but correct watch (I didn't want to use the word rare)
    -and quite desirable if it is a very late 564 pie-pan
    Did the later Japanese pie-pans come with the knurled crown?
    -because this could be another clue to the origins of this watch
    needs to have the rubbing rotor sorted if it hasn't already been done

    I guess the only way of telling is an extract
     
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  19. werdna77

    werdna77 Jan 15, 2016

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    In regards to the rotor, I wonder if what gator said about having the newer rotor plays into it...?
     
  20. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 15, 2016

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    I simply stated some facts that I know from years of observations.

    I want to emphasize that it all could mean everything or nothing.

    Further research regarding this watch is required.

    What I can tell you is that at price being asked, it had better be perfect and not have all these questions.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
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