Forums Latest Auctions Members

The seeds of doubt!

  1. The Toyman

    The Toyman Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    9
    Likes
    0
    Hi and many thanks for giving me the chance to gather information as I'm new to the forum. I'm a Brit living in Australia and have bought a "863" Speedmaster, Hesalite crystal, sapphire caseback with the 'gilt'? movement. I've since been told that it's totally fake! Here's a couple of photos and so I'd love to have some feedback, I know the seller, not that well, but well enough to sort it out, thanks in advance....
    IMG_20181213_164645.jpg IMG_20181213_164754_BURST001_COVER.jpg
     
  2. Dedalus05

    Dedalus05 Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    75
    Likes
    133
    Not an expert. One will chime in for you I'm sure. But if that is fake it would have fooled me too.
     
  3. OMEGuy

    OMEGuy Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    651
    Likes
    818
    Edited Mar 16, 2019
  4. The Toyman

    The Toyman Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    9
    Likes
    0
    Thanks, I can't work out if the person that is telling me it's fake is giving me BS for some reason. To me it looks good.
     
  5. The Toyman

    The Toyman Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    9
    Likes
    0
    Thanks for the reply. The guy who says it's fake has been 'dealing' in watches for many years and assures me that it's a Frankenwatch? He says the dial may be real, but everything else is fake??? very frustrating. Thanks for the link, I'll head over there!
     
  6. The Father

    The Father Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    1,204
    Likes
    6,147
    I’ll take one at the fake price
     
    OMEGuy likes this.
  7. Dedalus05

    Dedalus05 Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    75
    Likes
    133
    I am a total newbie - so please do not rely on my word. Someone here will let you know at some point today. But the pics you provided - they appear to be from a jewelers (given the tools in the background). Do you have the watch yet, and perhaps can provide better pictures? Or if you don't, but are getting a good price - perhaps this person wants it for himself and needs you to back out of the deal.
     
  8. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    13,983
    Likes
    27,493
    That guy is full of shit to put it bluntly. He's certainly a dealer who doesn't have a clue, or is trying to get the watch off you for a song so he can resell it.
     
    Syzygy, DiiQue, MaiLollo and 9 others like this.
  9. queriver

    queriver Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    644
    Likes
    1,173
    The serial number on the back of the case, 48.27x.xxx, is within the correct range for the 3592.50 un-numbered Apollo XI. I couldn't make out the 5th number but it doesn't matter because it's within range. Check it matches the serial on the movement which is not in focus. The bracelet looks OK and 812 endlinks are correct for the model.
     
  10. Taddyangle

    Taddyangle Convicted Invicta Wearer Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    4,044
    Likes
    23,392
    Looks legite, all parts look to match up on this one.
     
  11. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    8,720
    Likes
    14,638
    Australia is known for it's dangerous sharks. I don't mean the white pointers and stuff in the ocean, I mean the dodgy bastards who try to stiff people by professing to be "an expert".

    Where in Oz are you and who is the "expert".

    PM me if you're shy.

    Cheers

    Jim
     
  12. dialstatic

    dialstatic Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    926
    Likes
    1,706
    Of course it's only possible to definitively determine if it's fake or not through a thorough examination. Normally I'd say "post movement pictures" but that's the advantage of a sapphire caseback ;-)

    Although I'm no expert either, I have handled my share of Speedies and studied The Book and I don't see any tell-tale signs of it being a fake. So in theory, it might still be a really good fake, but if that guy didn't do more than give it a cursory examination either, then odds are he's just full of it (...or has an agenda).
     
  13. VintageWatchIta

    VintageWatchIta Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    265
    Likes
    421
    Basing on pictures, it looks totally legit!! search for other face-to-face advise in different Omega retailers, maybe they can delete any doubts if there are ;)

     
  14. The Toyman

    The Toyman Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    9
    Likes
    0
    Thank you, I'm very grateful for the response as I'm new to this forum. Here's some better pictures. According to this 'expert' the dial is okay, but the colour of the movement is wrong, the inscription is all wrong, the movement has the wrong parts. This guy is either full of BS or I'm going blind and senile in my old age as it looks okay to me. I'm in Perth, Western Australia. IMG_20190105_154754.jpg IMG_20190105_154815.jpg
     
  15. The Toyman

    The Toyman Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    9
    Likes
    0
    Another shot of my dial ( with another strap ) he also told me that the 'T SWISS T' dial shouldn't be with an 863 movement??? Is that correct? IMG_20180626_170028.jpg
     
  16. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    8,720
    Likes
    14,638
    Maybe you should tell him to contact Grégoire Rossier and Anthony Marquié and tell them that they know SFA.

    On second thoughts, just tell him to pull his head in until he knows what he's talking about (which will be never by the sound of him).

    MWO_P1.JPG

    MWO_P2.JPG
     
    ConElPueblo, OWa and Speedmasterfan88 like this.
  17. superfly

    superfly Mar 16, 2019

    Posts
    224
    Likes
    697
    If you look closely, the bezel insert on OP's example is not a match to the one in the book.

    Perhaps it's a service bezel insert. Maybe fake. I don't know.
     
    89-0 likes this.
  18. Foo2rama

    Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Mar 17, 2019

    Posts
    10,736
    Likes
    14,603
    Non serif, no accent? Where is the difference? Heaviness of the printing can vary a bit.


    Also, it’s not a fake. No one is faking the lemania movement and the costs to take a lemania and convert it to look like an 863 makes no sense.

    Clearly from the pictures it’s legit. The best speedy fakes are not even close.
     
    Als 27, JanV and Dedalus05 like this.
  19. Evitzee

    Evitzee Mar 17, 2019

    Posts
    542
    Likes
    793
    Name the expert, it will give another data point.
     
  20. The Toyman

    The Toyman Mar 17, 2019

    Posts
    9
    Likes
    0
    Thank you.