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JACK G
·Thank you @Bill Sohne for taking the time to post your considered and positive response which is appreciated.
The Omega factory and vintage watches - a personal experience.
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JACK G
·When this subject comes up, the conclusion tends to be that if you are a collector of vintage Omega, and want sympathetic service work, there are better options than Omega.
Names that come up often are @Archer, Swiss Time Services, Simon Freese... and I'm sure others who I shamefully can't remember.
I totally agree with you on this but when I first wanted a vintage Omega serviced in 2009 my main concern was the case work. I believe that in 2009 there were very few lapping machines around other than at the Omega factory.
I gave Omega very specific instructions to just service the watch and keep original dial and hands etc. They did a fantastic job and the case was superb.
Over the next 2 years I sent Omega quite a few watches - some I wanted kept as original and some I requested new dials and hands and on every occasion they followed my instructions and produced exactly what I wanted until the Ploprof.
The frustration of the month long email debate resulted in looking for alternatives and my watches then went to STS and now to Simon.
Like many others in 2009 I tried to get my watches to 'as new' condition but now I like to preserve originality and do not have any case work carried out. I also spend many hours doing research to ensure the watches I have are as original as they can be.
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tyrantlizardrex
·Fair points! 😀
I think a few bits changed in the last 9 years @JACK G.
Omega themselves restricted whether third parties could work on some Cat 4 Watches, the rules around shipping radioactive materials in/out of Switzerland tightened up, more people bought lapping kit, and a fair few watchmakers retired.
Anecdotally, I’ve been told that service/restoration costs of sending an older watch (pre 1960ish) back to Bienne have gone up... not sure if this means you get a better job, if they’re taking more care, or what.
All interesting stuff to consider before sending a watch anywhere I guess.
I think a few bits changed in the last 9 years @JACK G.
Omega themselves restricted whether third parties could work on some Cat 4 Watches, the rules around shipping radioactive materials in/out of Switzerland tightened up, more people bought lapping kit, and a fair few watchmakers retired.
Anecdotally, I’ve been told that service/restoration costs of sending an older watch (pre 1960ish) back to Bienne have gone up... not sure if this means you get a better job, if they’re taking more care, or what.
All interesting stuff to consider before sending a watch anywhere I guess.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI think, when you take into account that the heritage team is 4/5 people(not sure on current numbers, but a tiny team) to expect them to have the level of knowledge of the thousands of folks here is maybe a little unfair.
As much as I agree with this for the most part, the fact that it's the job of those 4/5 people and they are paid to have the expertise or do the work (compared to a bunch of hobbyists for the most part - dealers excepted I suppose) there's a part of me that thinks they should be doing better. They have all the original records in hand, which is more than the rest of us have. Cut them some slack because of their size - yes certainly, but not let them off the hook entirely I would say.
I gave Omega very specific instructions to just service the watch and keep original dial and hands etc. They did a fantastic job and the case was superb.
Omega will consider requests to keep things like dials and hands, but if they feel that keeping those parts on the watch will in any way jeopardize the warranty they put on the watch, they will replace them if they feel it's needed, regardless of your requests. So if they kept them on the watch as you asked, then you probably didn't need to ask.
Cheers, Al
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kov
·As much as I agree with this for the most part, the fact that it's the job of those 4/5 people and they are paid to have the expertise or do the work (compared to a bunch of hobbyists for the most part - dealers excepted I suppose) there's a part of me that thinks they should be doing better. They have all the original records in hand, which is more than the rest of us have.
I would like to agree with that statement but still you will find the same issues everywhere. The fact that people get paid for doing something doesn't mean they enjoy doing it nor does mean they live what they do... What percentage of the people a business employs do live for the company and are really passionate about what they do on average? What percentage of internal resources in a company are effectively used by employees?
Would we, passionate members of this community thrive if we got access to those resources? Certainly yes.
Would we, passionate members of this community still thrive as employee of that company? Certainly yes, but how long would it last?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI would like to agree with that statement but still you will find the same issues everywhere. The fact that people get paid for doing something doesn't mean they enjoy doing it nor does mean they live what they do... What percentage of the people a business employs do live for the company and are really passionate about what they do on average? What percentage of internal resources in a company are effectively used by employees?
Would we, passionate members of this community thrive if we got access to those resources? Certainly yes.
Would we, passionate members of this community still thrive as employee of that company? Certainly yes, but how long would it last?
You don't have to have passion to do what you are paid to do on a daily basis - that's why they pay you and it's called a job. They don't have to "live what they do" just do the job they are being paid to do. Passion need not come into it, but if it does that's good.
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tyrantlizardrex
·I was think of their workload (and what their actual jobs are) vs. hundreds of thousands of us nerds doing this for fun. 😀
Now if they’d just let us loose in the archives! 😁
Now if they’d just let us loose in the archives! 😁
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI was think of their workload (and what their actual jobs are) vs. hundreds of thousands of us nerds doing this for fun. 😀
Now if they’d just let us loose in the archives! 😁
As I said I cut them some slack, but honestly what is their workload?
Now I could go about finding efficiencies and continuous improvement, but I'd give myself a headache...😀
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tyrantlizardrex
·As I said I cut them some slack, but honestly what is their workload?
Now I could go about finding efficiencies and continuous improvement, but I'd give myself a headache...😀
Of the team, I know that:
Petros is international heritage brand manager - so looks after the tie between brand heritage, and new product/brand/brand events.
David is the museums watch maker, so looks after the museums watches.
I guess my point being that their business is not setup to deal with us needy nerds. 😀
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI guess my point being that their business is not setup to deal with us needy nerds. 😀
So their job does not involve knowing what hands are proper for what watch? Well that makes for an "interesting" heritage department then!
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tyrantlizardrex
·As I understand it, heritage and service are two different worlds.
Not saying that makes sense, just the way thing are.
Not saying that makes sense, just the way thing are.
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward Watches"Needy nerds" aptly describes watch mavens like us.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerAs I understand it, heritage and service are two different worlds.
Not saying that makes sense, just the way thing are.
But this thread is about service and what correct hands were for a watch, and I thought you were indicating that the heritage team would get involved, right? Otherwise I'm not clear why you brought them into the thread...
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kov
·I believe we brought them in the thread by saying that there are indeed only a few people having preserving vintage cosmetics in mind. Service are trained to company guidelines no matter what kind of watch. I believe if we consider Service department only, our expectations def don't match with their guidelines.
And they must for sure be looking to build a dedicated department, to better match our expectations and get their part of that vintage cake.
And they must for sure be looking to build a dedicated department, to better match our expectations and get their part of that vintage cake.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI believe we brought them in the thread by saying that there are indeed only a few people having preserving vintage cosmetics in mind. Service are trained to company guidelines no matter what kind of watch. I believe if we consider Service department only, our expectations def don't match with their guidelines.
And they must for sure be looking to build a dedicated department, to better match our expectations and get their part of that vintage cake.
Okay, I guess I wasn't clear on what was being stated then, and I'm still not sure how all this fits together...
If, as in the OP's example, there is some question regarding what the correct hands are for X, Y, or Z watch, I would hope that the service department would ask the heritage department (museum) for clarification, and in this example posted they did just that. The problem is that the answer came back incorrect, based on the knowledge of a renowned expert (if I am reading all this right). Basically they said the hands were not used on this reference, but we can't know for sure that they weren't (contradiction) so we're letting you keep them if you want. Not exactly a resounding vote of confidence. 😵💫
So again it's back to the heritage department doing what they are supposed to be doing in my view. I do understand this is from 2011, so things may be better, but are they? I guess that's the OP's question in the end.
I'm well aware of service center policies (I post on this pretty regularly, even in this thread!), but this one seems to be an exception I'm assuming, where the heritage department was contacted, but simply provided bad information despite their willingness to relent in the end (both are kind of disturbing to be honest).
My conclusion is, they have a long way to go...
Cheers, Al
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M'Bob
·You raised a valid question and worthily of at lest my time...
My, my William; are thou harking back to an earlier time?
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