A lot of people seems to be really excited about the new movement. To some extent I can see why, but the other half of me is not so sure. Here we have the 1861/861 movement (the differences are subtle) that have been in service since 1969. It has been in space and was retested by NASA for the shuttle missions. I cant see past the fact that the Moonwatch now moves away from the great thing that it was. The new movement, though great, makes the Speedmaster a modern watch and far from the one being used in space. Of course you could say that it is still the same movement with some updates, but I'm not sure what to think here. The fact that the Moonwatch was unchanged for so many years was a big sellingpoint for me. Now it is a modern Omega,,

 

I think it's a good thing they've finally moved on. I truly believe in the longrun a watch company should think forward, not kept on celebraring the past. It's been 50 years they reflect on such 861/1861. For the next 50 they better have new accomplishments going on with new movement.
New movement will also give the older ones some space to still flourish among collectors (321/861/1861), as these are the closest things that went to space.
It's not like we can't buy the 321/861/1861 anymore. We can, from the secondary market.

 

Yep - exactly, you can look at it like that. But again, I think they are letting a historic model go. The new one, thoug similar, is not the watch being used in space any more as I see it...

 

Theyre not discontinuing the 1861 moonwatch, are they?

The 3861 is just for a limited commemorartive release, is it not?

 

We don't know yet. But I kinda hope they'd do. Would be pretty cool to have a daily Moonwatch with supposedly better movement specs.

Although to think about it, they did make a special calibre 3201 for Speedmaster 50th. Maybe this 3861 also a one-off thing?
https://www.fratellowatches.com/speedy-tuesday-omega-speedmaster-1957-50th-anniversary-2007/

 

According to Fratello Magazine the two references that made it to the Moon are the Speedmaster Professional 105.012 and 145.012. They both had the 321 calibre.

The 861 was (probably) in space but not on the moon. So there's a subtle difference here. As Omega is pushing forward and want to have the whole collection to be anti-magnetic (with exception of the «real» moonwatch), I very well can image that the 1861 will be replaced with the 3861.

As the 321 will be re-introduced later this year, we might see a new «real» moonwatch with the «real» moon calibre.

 

Are you sure? There were 6 manned moon landings. The last one occured in 1972. At that time the 861 had already replaced the 321.

 

No, I'm not sure. But I believe Fratello Magazine to be a reliable source (see: https://www.fratellowatches.com/speedy-tuesday-incoming-question-about-original-moonwatch/)

The question is if NASA has replaced the watches. That probably didn't happen (if Fratello is correct) on this topic. Robert-Jan Broer for sure can clear things up.

 

Has there been any intimation whatsoever that the 1861 is going away? Seems highly unlikely...

 

From the website of Chuck Maddox
http://www.chronomaddox.com/moonmovement.html

NASA procured a large number of Speedmaster's during the 1960's for use as an Space Flight Crew chronograph after extensive testing prior to the first Gemini flight.

Note: We don't know the number or specific model(s) that were acquired but this was done before the switch over to c.861 movement.

...

1. it is obvious that the first moon landing was made with a Speedmaster fitted with a caliber 321 movement. The toward the seventies, the NASA has probably also used the replacement movement caliber 861. We have no official confirmation of what has been used and when, except for the first Moon landing.

2. The re-qualification in 1978 is exclusively made with the caliber 861."

 

From what I could remember they did took 861 to space. But it stayed on orbit, not landed.

 

Chuck Maddox wrote as well:

We have no documentary evidence to prove that c.861's were used on or near the moon, although we have reasons to suspect that some were used among other brands of watches. This is the rub for c.861's... We can not document their use on or near the moon at all.

 

This is the watch if I'm not mistaken 861 from Apollo 17 https://www.christies.com/lotfinder...ster-5945140-details.aspx?intobjectid=5945140

 

Thanks for sharing! Definitely an interesting discussion here.

 

Isn´t it obviuous that the 3861 will replace the 1861 in the long run? I guess they wouldn't create this new caliber and keep it in some of the watches. I also think that they wouldn't go through the work of creating a new movement only to have it in a very limited amount of watches. 321 being an exception.

 

Why wouldn’t they reserve it for certain models? They’ve done that with the various co-axial movements currently in the different Speedmaster models. Omega clearly has no problem having extensively large product lines with all sorts of options. Manual wind classic Speedy is their bread and butter; there’s no need for them to do away with it.

 

Thank you both of you Ree and watchalone. Indeed, Ron Evans did not go the moon and stayed in orbit. So indeed, there is no evidence that a watch equipped with a caliber 861 has ever been worn on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_17

 

The movement is an updated 1861 with a Co-axial escapement that's been adjusted to meet METAS. I think the aesthetic and function will remain the same.

Edit: I wonder if the new 3861 Speedmaster is going to say "Flight Qualified for all Manned Space Missions" considering the movement's escapement has changed.

 

Why would they do that? Omega needs a reason to raise the Speedy Pro's price to the level of their remaining collection. With the 3861, they have something they can promote as the direct continuation of the 861, it's still handwound, and with the coax escapement, it now has what the average customer regards as "state of the art" technology. While on the other hand, with the new 321 Omega has something so promote as the true "original".

My gut feeling is there is going to be a new Speedmaster Professional with the 3861 replacing the current one, priced around the rest of the coax range. If not this year, then in the near future.

 

Well, that sounded overly negative... I might still buy one at some point in the future