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The bad press received by watch restoration.

  1. ddurham Jan 31, 2018

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    It strikes me that it must be quite a secretive and lonesome existence to be a watch restorer. Correct me if I'm wrong but watch restoration, as opposed to repair or service just seems to get bad press.

    I get the impression that to many "restoration" is no more than a synonym of such demonic practices as case polishing, re-luming, redialing and parts replacement. But surely the only thing wrong with such practices is that their results be noticeable. How many of the mint, pristine or even NOS vintage watches that we see here on the forum, or in your own collections, can truly consider themselves 'all original'? Not only were the manufacturers themselves all over the place 'back in the day' but since then 40, 50, maybe 80 years have passed, a lifetime! But you still read Service History Unknown - All Original in those FS posts! Who are we trying to kid?!

    It seems unusual that in almost any other market of vintage mechanical items restored examples are considered to be among the most valued, perhaps not to the extent of those that are proven to be all original, but not so far off. Think of the vintage car market.

    In the vintage watch world the 'restorer' has no place, that person has become the villain, the guy or girl whose objective it is to to do the job so very well...that we, the enthusiasts, the collectors don't even notice.

    So long live those masters of the arts of watch restoration, spare them a thought, without them the watch collecting game might just be a bit more exclusive than we'd like.
     
  2. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Jan 31, 2018

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    That sounds like 'watch fiend'.

    The restorers I know of are watchmakers who do none of that (unless you request it) but if, e.g a part is broken in a watch that has no more spares, they will mechanically manufacture or repair the necessary bits. 'Sympathetic Movement Service/Restoration' its called. Check out guys like Archer, Mr Simon Freese (on instagram too, he has lovely pictures of some of the mechanical mastery he does for this) and on several threads here you will also hear about STS.
     
    Edited Jan 31, 2018
  3. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jan 31, 2018

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    You are overstating all of your important points.

    High-quality restorers are not vilified at all, in fact they are highly respected, and typically very well compensated.

    Complaints about restorations are mostly justified, as poor restorations outnumber really good ones by a very wide margin. Worse yet, and especially with regard to case polishing, restorations are done unnecessarily, and original lines are lost.

    Your suggestion that claims of originality are dubious is wildly overstated. Serious collectors can tell with high confidence whether a dial has been refinished, and/or relumed. Yes, it is always possible that a crystal or crown has been replaced with a correct one, and no one may know. But given the overall condition of the watch, it is fairly easy to judge how likely or unlikely such a substitution may have been.

    No one is likely to care if a mainspring or other movement part has been replaced during service, as long as correct ones are used.

    Your analogy with cars is not apt, as watch dials, unlike car bodies, are works of art, and their unique patina is often highly desirable.
     
    Hnansen, Foo2rama, micampe and 6 others like this.
  4. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jan 31, 2018

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    We notice and that's why when you get a untouched example it is a thrill

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
     
    micampe, noelekal, ddurham and 7 others like this.
  5. tyrantlizardrex Jan 31, 2018

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    The problem with "restorations" is that often they are carried out, and then denied... done in an attempt to make something old and worn out, look like it is mint and original.

    I don't think anyone has an issue with restorations, they have huge issue with lack of disclosure.
     
    Longbow, micampe, noelekal and 9 others like this.
  6. ddurham Jan 31, 2018

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    I do agree, and of course have no issue with honest watchmakers and dealers and fully agree that disclosure is fundamental. But I also think that the never-ending strive for perfection increases any tendency towards insincere or perhaps incomplete disclosure. I do find this forum as well as just a few others to be populated by open and honest, like-minded individuals who go out of their way to help and to educate, but as you all know very well, you have to be so careful!
     
  7. tyrantlizardrex Jan 31, 2018

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    I think the old adage, that "if it's too good to be true, it probably is", often stands true... but then there are also some amazing, original watches that come to market after 50 years in a safe, unworn.

    As always, Buyer Beware.
     
  8. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Jan 31, 2018

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  9. lillatroll Jan 31, 2018

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    Nothing wrong with a restored watch if: you know it' a restored watch and secondly you pay a price that reflects the fact that it is a restored watch.
    This forum is littered with threads from people who have paid way over the odds for watches that have only a fraction of the value left in them after they have been 'restored'.
    Watch collectors want original watches and are prepared to pay for it. Toerag sellers take advantage of people's lack of knowledge and essentially rip people off. It is this that is wrong not the restoration of watches in itself.
     
  10. ddurham Jan 31, 2018

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    Right! My point exactly. If the market in general gave more credit for well executed restorations such as this one surely there would be less of a tendency for this to happen at all. The information being disclosed would be seen to be of value itself rather than having been so blatantly hidden. Maybe I'm over-generalising but why can't we bee proud to say 'it's been restored'? Is it a work of art and so untouchable? In very few cases if you ask me, let's not romanticise this, they're watches, and the high majority are just consumer goods.
    I'm not saying of course that they should all be restored. I prefer my small collection the imperfect way it is, but there are many that should be, and proudly.
     
  11. tyrantlizardrex Jan 31, 2018

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    I'm struggling to see what your point is... you like your watches to be worn and original, but think people should like restorations and give restorers a break?

    Unless you have a restoration business, why do you care what anyone thinks?
     
    frederico likes this.
  12. jumpingsecond Jan 31, 2018

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    This is undoubtedly a work of art and god help the man who touches this dial imperfections and all :mad::whipped: 20171121_235448.jpg
     
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  13. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jan 31, 2018

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    For many, vintage watch collecting revolves around the beauty of the dial. And a large majority of the most desirable vintage watches – at all price points – feature attractive, well-designed, and in many cases beautiful dials.

    No one cares if restorations are done on cheap, utilitarian watches, or those with badly damaged dials, so that large group is irrelevant.
     
    Vitezi likes this.
  14. ddurham Feb 1, 2018

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    Just offering up a point for discussion in what I believed to be a place that was open to thoughts and ideas, maybe I was wrong.
     
  15. tyrantlizardrex Feb 1, 2018

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    What's the discussion?

    People buy what they like.

    That's really all there is to it.

    Suggesting that everyone should embrace restoration, is as daft as suggesting everyone should love Rolex, or Cheese, or Aerosmith.
     
  16. ddurham Feb 1, 2018

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    Has something I've said offended you?
    If you're not open minded and not willing to consider anything I've said then why bother responding at all?
    You're welcome to your preconceived ideas and opinions, I'm off.
     
  17. tyrantlizardrex Feb 1, 2018

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    You wrote a post with a view point, you then said this was not your own viewpoint as you don't want to own restored watches.

    As I said:

    Which you can see from the people liking, is not a stand alone viewpoint.

    So my question remains, other than trying to start an argument... why post in the first place defending the honour of restorers, if you yourself don't want to own watches that have been restored?

    You haven't offended me, I'm just failing to understand what you're trying to achieve by "offering up a point for discussion" that you yourself seem to disagree with.

    And when I write responses that you don't like, I'm closed minded?

    If you'd read any of what I'd written, rather than just rolling on with your posts, you'd know that I have considered the things you talk about, long ago, and arrived at conclusions of my own, which I shared above.

    Welcome to the forum... maybe get a measure before casting accusations. :whistling:
     
  18. ddurham Feb 1, 2018

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    Got my measure.
    Thanks
     
  19. thegreentreefrog Feb 2, 2018

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    Recently had my watch restored by Jeff Herman (watchrepair.net) Jeff uses all Omega Parts and has Accredited Omega watchmakers.I added the Sapphire Presentation Case Back.
    Great Job Jeff!
     
    Speed2.jpg omegaCASEBACK.jpg
  20. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Feb 2, 2018

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    Wow, you must really love this guy. This is the 3rd repeat post with the same pictures and the same text I have seen since yesterday...