Swapping Parts to Enhance Vtg Omega--How to Handle Sales

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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had key parts replaced. You can use "authentic". Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.
 
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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had key parts replaced. You can use "authentic". Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.
 
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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had key parts replaced. You can use "authentic". Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.
 
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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had key parts replaced. You can use "authentic". Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.
 
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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had key parts replaced. You can use "authentic". Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.
Thank you, that is very helpful.
 
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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had key parts replaced. You can use "authentic". Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.

Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had ANY parts replaced. You can use "authentic" if the replacement parts are period OEM specification. Once the watch is altered from the way it originally left the factory it is no longer original.

The above slight alteration is, imho, more tightly defined and logically consistent 😉
 
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This is a great thread for finding sellers to mark as avoid at all cost.

If anyone feels that you can replace a dial and are not obligated to disclose this when you sell the piece later...even if the replaced dial is 100% correct for the watch...then you are dishonorable and not a collector or dealer I would ever trust. Does it happen? of course it does. But it doesn't make it acceptable.
 
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This is a great thread for finding sellers to mark as avoid at all cost.

First of all, that's a really offensive comment. I assume you are referring to me amongst a couple other posters.
As someone who hasn't spent a lot of time on forums, this thread has been educational to me in terms of what the veteran member's standards are and it is helpful if it works to improve the forum. I for one pride myself on being an honest person, and have learned from this thread that sellers are strongly encouraged to disclose all details possible about a piece for sale.
To question the murky waters we are all wading through, and question whether we should rely more on what IS rather than what someone discloses could be looked at as a healthy skepticism.
Let's not make this personal.
I would add that if the forum moderators insist that every member disclose every detail known about a watch and its components perhaps it should be emphasized in the SALE RULES.
 
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I agree there should be a different standard for sellers and buyers - obviously higher for the seller. But I will repeat what I said: as a relatively picky buyer, if a part is replaced from the same vintage, by the same company, for cosmetic purposes only, and does not hide undisclosed damage, I really don't care if I'm informed of that change.
 
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And a paperclip is not authentic.
 
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I agree there should be a different standard for sellers and buyers - obviously higher for the seller. But I will repeat what I said: as a relatively picky buyer, if a part is replaced from the same vintage, by the same company, for cosmetic purposes only, and does not hide undisclosed damage, I really don't care if I'm informed of that change.
+1 on that... and that was my point exactly also.
As for sellers not disclosing, we can all agree that they shouldn't, but be realistic please. It happens, also by the "good" guys sometimes. But yes, it's not smart practice and will hit you in face eventually, so don't.
Now I think I'll go and make a FS post, where I don't use the word original, because I really don't know the watch's full history from when it left the factory 45 years ago ;-)
 
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Curious to know what people think of this, on topic..

Some FS listing show a watch and refer to 'correct' parts, though often drawing more attention to the aesthetic qualities.. they don't explicitly say whether parts were replaced or not, though they don't call it original or 'barn find' or 'one owner' either.

In a few cases, I've asked a seller for more details, and fortunately in most cases, the sellers are honest about parts that were replaced to achieve a very nice outcome. Of course I have no idea if they are disclosing everything, or disclosing just enough to make the appearance of being honest..

So, while not listed explicitly in the sales ad, the seller does disclose when asked.

Is that considered above board, or is it still misleading to not call it out in the listing?

As many have said, if the parts all hang together and are all correct, I have no way of knowing the extent of the 'putting together'..
 
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Near impossible to know with certainty what is "original" on ANY decades old watch.

I prefer much the term "correct" to describe parts that are as they should have been at the time the watch left the factory. Even then, there is room for differing opinions, or transitional references.
 
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I have never understood the Rolex/Seiko owner's idea of pimping their watch.That aside, when buying from places such as eBay, if you set the bar low enough, you can only be presently surprised. It is a different matter when dealing with a respected member of a forum where you pay more but expect a higher standard of both watch and behaviour.
 
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Absolutely do NOT use the word "original" in describing ANY watch that's had ANY parts replaced.
I think that goes way too far. There are parts in a watch that are supposed to be replaced every so often, like mainsprings, crowns and seals. This is true even if the watch is NOS and was never touched by human hands since new.

So long as the correct part is used, I'm OK using the term "original". However, a disclaimer should be used regarding a unknown service history of a watch. For watches where the original parts have been discontinued and factory replacements have been installed, this should be mentioned as well. Very few sellers possess this kind of knowledge, so it's really not fair to expect it.

You can't legislate perfection.
gatorcpa
 
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Near impossible to know with certainty what is "original" on ANY decades old watch.

I prefer much the term "correct" to describe parts that are as they should have been at the time the watch left the factory. Even then, there is room for differing opinions, or transitional references.
Agreed. "Correct" (or "authentic") is a necessary condition of "original", but not a sufficient one.

One of my more precious Omegas has finally been restored "correctly". I don't consider it to be "original", even though it wouldn't be possible to tell the difference. And that's perfectly fine, so long as the distinction is clearly made.

Cordially,

Art
 
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I think that goes way too far. There are parts in a watch that are supposed to be replaced every so often, like mainsprings, crowns and seals. This is true even if the watch is NOS and was never touched by human hands since new.

So long as the correct part is used, I'm OK using the term "original". However, a disclaimer should be used regarding a unknown service history of a watch. For watches where the original parts have been discontinued and factory replacements have been installed, this should be mentioned as well. Very few sellers possess this kind of knowledge, so it's really not fair to expect it.

You can't legislate perfection.
gatorcpa

I respectfully disagree. A lot of misunderstandings come about when a descriptive term is interpreted differently between two people. Let me give an example of how I would use original. If I bought a new watch and sold it in say 6 months without any service, then I feel correct in describing it as original.

If I kept it for 6 years and sold it after it had been serviced and say for example seals and the mainspring had been replaced, I wouldn't describe it as "original" as it no longer contained all the parts it had when it left the OEM. "Correct" or "Manufacturer's Original Specification" would be my descriptions of choice.
 
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I respectfully disagree. A lot of misunderstandings come about when a descriptive term is interpreted differently between two people. Let me give an example of how I would use original. If I bought a new watch and sold it in say 6 months without any service, then I feel correct in describing it as original.

If I kept it for 6 years and sold it after it had been serviced and say for example seals and the mainspring had been replaced, I wouldn't describe it as "original" as it no longer contained all the parts it had when it left the OEM. "Correct" or "Manufacturer's Original Specification" would be my descriptions of choice.
We do agree that replacements should be disclosed where possible. However, it would be impossible to expect anyone but the first owner to know if any watch meets this definition of "original". Certainly even the most honorable watch dealer couldn't know this.

Almost no vintage watches would qualify under your definition as original.

Perhaps the term should be banned altogether?
gatorcpa