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Strange Rolex Submariner dial , 1972 ,

vonrozen
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Case-No: 3189294. Reference-No: 1680. Movement-No.: D798157


I have bought today this Sub (1972) from a reputable Auction House . However, when I look at the photos of the dial, it seems very granular. The watch specialist at the auction house assured me that the dial was never repainted, but why is the black so odd ? Any ideas / siggestions , please ?

Thank you very much indeed !
Alexander (Paris )

Rolex Sub Dial .webp
 
littlmej
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Most likely the dial had contact with water / moisture at one point of history, which can end in that „grainy“ look on the dial.
Can you provide a closer picture of the dial?
 
Mark020
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It should be red anyway isn’t it? But indeed water damage
 
vonrozen
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thanks very much . These are the best images i have . Obviously harder to see thruogh the glas . I am relieved , my nightmare would be if it had been repainted. It's a death sentence !
 
littlmej
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Mark020 Mark020
It should be red anyway isn’t it? But indeed water damage
You are right, the white Sub was introduced in 1975, before that it was the red sub.
So most likely the dial has been replaced.
 
vonrozen
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are you sure about that ? I can not find any entry in the Rolex books to support this claim .
 
dsio
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vonrozen vonrozen
are you sure about that ? I can not find any entry in the Rolex books to support this claim .
The first white sub was the Mark VII dial and began around the 4M serial range, so 1975, it won’t be a ‘72 for sure
 
vonrozen
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ok , so the consensus is that it is alater dial . What a shock. And the hands too ? because they they have the same patina. Any idea how old this dial could be ?
 
vonrozen
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OK, thanks Littlemej ! So it is MK 3 dial , if my eyes are correct?
 
Dan S
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It is a later dial, added during a service most likely, with damage to the lacquer layer. At first glance, the bezel insert also looks substantially later, and probably a service insert.
rolex_1680_pair.webp
 
vonrozen
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Thanks, Dan. Were there service dials that were all white in 1972 or is it clearly the wrong dial ?
 
Dan S
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vonrozen vonrozen
Thanks, Dan. Were there service dials that were all white in 1972 or is it clearly the wrong dial ?
No, it would be later. But a service dial would always be later anyway. Nobody has a service dial installed in the first few years they own the watch.
 
vonrozen
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thank you very much indeed . I am horrified , will probably not be able to ever gid rid of this watch. What an idiot.
 
vonrozen
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bracelet seems correct,. It is just to have paid for a 'collage' watch which is honestly shocking. Have only myself to blame !
 
vonrozen
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i paid 9.150 Euros including commission . Can I ever sell it for 9 ? I mean, I have to get rid of it now.
 
Dan S
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It's common that watches in smaller auctions have some issues. This watch looks authentic to me, it just has some replacement parts. I don't know if you really have anything to complain about. It's not an example for a collector, but you probably knew that already from the condition of the dial. I do think that 9150 Euros is pretty expensive, but I guess it was an auction so other people were bidding. TBH, I'm often surprised how much people will pay for a Rolex with service parts, although they usually like them to look like new. Someone might want to send it to Rolex and have it upgraded with luminova hands/dial and new insert, and the case refinished.
Edited:
 
vibe
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vonrozen vonrozen
i paid 9.150 Euros including commission . Can I ever sell it for 9 ? I mean, I have to get rid of it now.
You need to go into the vintage sub market with a lot of knowledge: dial series, insert series, crystal, and then be able to judge the condition of the case, originality of the lume. And then also the bracelet and crown annd date disc are also to be considered. You may have spent a lot on that watch but a correct red sub is going to be a lot more expensive.
 
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