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Steve McQueen Monaco for Auction

Foo2rama
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
Probably as provenance is often used to pump up the price way beyond an items true value, it is used to pray on the gullible who fall for the cult of celebrity.
Provenance only true value is to help determine the authenticity of something truly unique, it has no moral value in being used to massively inflate the price of a mass produced item that is for all intents and purposes, identical to all the others of it's kind.
It might be nice to be able to say that something you own might've been owned/worn/used by a celebrity or some such, but how much would it be really worth to you to be able to say so? $10, $100 maybe even $1,000 but surely not a $1,000,000!

I argue in the watch world if there had been only one the price would be much higher.

these 6 watches as a group are arguably in the top 10 most desirable watches in existence.

but let me ask you is the Bullet Mustang worth more then a regular fastback?
 
Pastorbottle
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
I argue in the watch world if there had been only one the price would be much higher.

these 6 watches as a group are arguably in the top 10 most desirable watches in existence.

but let me ask you is the Bullet Mustang worth more then a regular fastback?

Not to me.

The cult of celebrity sucks in those with more dollars than sense, is a very old con game, think back to, the hype involved with holy relics, there a few moldy old bones were subject to dubious claims that they were from some saint or another, and some splinters from an old packing case or a shipping pallet where claimed to be from the cross!
These were used to part the gullible from their money by generating hysterical hype to pump up the desirability and the supposed valve by many times the actual value that they would otherwise command.
With religion not longer the hot item it was, we as a society have replaced it with celebrity cult worship to some extent
 
Foo2rama
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
Not to me.

The cult of celebrity sucks in those with more dollars than sense, is a very old con game, think back to, the hype involved with holy relics, there a few moldy old bones were subject to dubious claims that they were from some saint or another, and some splinters from an old packing case or a shipping pallet where claimed to be from the cross!
These were used to part the gullible from their money by generating hysterical hype to pump up the desirability and the supposed valve by many times the actual value that they would otherwise command.
With religion not longer the hot item it was, we as a society have replaced it with celebrity cult worship to some extent

So you believe items have intrinsic value but talismanic value.

So why would a Rolex Daytona from the 80’s be worth more than a Speedmaster Professional from the same er. Similar quality and arguably more Daytonas where made at that time. Why is there a 10x price differential?

Conversely, I own a watch that is the rarest variant ( 1 of 50 of less then 3k in total with other series) of the first watch with a rotating bezel, and as a series has huge WWII provenance as they where almost exclusively made for the Czechoslovakian Airforce during WWII. Mine is arguably better then the one that Longines has in its museum. Its a damn good looking watch that is even more interesting once you have it in hand and has been the subject of 3 tributes by 2 watchmakers. Should it be worth a lot of money? You might be surprised how cheap you can source one.

Do you see what I am getting it? Perhaps even your watch valuations are not as logical as you might think they are, otherwise you would hate the entire watch enthusiasts community. We all have different "kinks."
 
pdxleaf
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
...Conversely, I own a watch that is the rarest variant ( 1 of 50 of less then 3k in total with other series) of the first watch with a rotating bezel, and as a series has huge WWII provenance as they where almost exclusively made for the Czechoslovakian Airforce during WWII. Mine is arguably better then the one that Longines has in its museum. Its a damn good looking watch that is even more interesting once you have it in hand and has been the subject of 3 tributes by 2 watchmakers....

SHOW ME SHOW ME SHOW ME...

1000017716.jpg
 
Pastorbottle
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I have an Omega Flightmaster, I bought it new and I've had it since since I was about 16. I don't see how one that is pretty well much the same as mine but for it was worn by a cosmonaut is in reality worth so many mutlitudes more than mine. Functionally, it doesn't do anything mine can't, I doubt it has mystic powers, it is probably in better condition than mine, so it might have a modest value boost in that regard and It has might have some Russian blokes ancient wrist cheese as opposed to my sacred wrist cheese, but to me not worth any more than mine.
I find it hard to understand that so many would pay so much just to bask in the reflected glory of the history of the watch.

I can have a dig about in the rag bag and probably produce a smudged old bed sheet, it's utterly worthless unless I can convince some suckers that it was a death shroud for an historical (possibly fictional) religious figure, if I spin a good enough line of bullshit and boost it by enlisting the help of some dodgy bishop and get the media to hype it up enough it might help me legitimise my claims to the faithful. I can then send the "holy" relic off to auction to command an obscene amount of money from some cashed up arsehole so as they can boost their fragile ego, by being able to brag every poor bastard in hearing range that they own it!
Now I must cease exchanging philosophical notions and go and find that ratty old bed sheet, whilst the market is hot! 😁
 
pdxleaf
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
I have an Omega Flightmaster, I bought it new and I've had it since since I was about 16. I don't see how one that is pretty well much the same as mine but for it was worn by a cosmonaut is in reality worth so many mutlitudes more than mine. ..

Some people achieve brave and heoric feats that are worthy of praise. Each person decides for themselves who they think is worthy of their respect. Regardless, we are not all equal in the eyes of history, in spite what our parents may have told us.

1000017652.jpg
 
Foo2rama
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
SHOW ME SHOW ME SHOW ME...

1000017716.jpg

IMG_9057.jpeg IMG_9058.jpeg

Series II Majetek. I need to take better pictures of it.

theirs has better lume but is a more common variant, mine has the better over all dial and case. As well as the better looking hands for the style.
Edited:
 
Foo2rama
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Watch my Whisky Watch my Whisky
Spending half a buck on a watch worn by a drug addict movie star is immoral.
You must hate rock and roll music then.
 
pdxleaf
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
IMG_9057.jpeg IMG_9058.jpeg

Series II Majetek. I need to take better pictures of it.

theirs has better lume but is a more common variant, mine has the better over all dial and case. As well as the better looking hands for the style.


Oh man, feeling the great green-eyed monster!

My brother and I visited the Longines museum last year. As you know, it's an amazing museum. Out of all the watches and exhibits, I took two pictures of watches. You can guess one of them:

20231026_155105.jpg 20231026_160520.jpg



You've got an amazing watch!
 
Pastorbottle
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Re the cosmonaut who wore the Flight master in space
I'm not saying that the bloke didn't deserve or achieve his place in history, nor that he shouldn't reap any reward that he could from that fame by cashing in some on some trinkets from that time but it's the over inflated valuations put on these sort of items in the secondary market that causes me to question it all.....I am after all a cynical old bastard.

The secondary market is pumped up by the media for their own purposes (the more hype the bigger the story, the more $$$, the item sells for the more sensation from the media, equates to all the more $$$ for the media to be made outta hyping it up and so the circle perpetuates) is all the more the profiteers can can exploit from the fame and/or notoriety of the item.
This attracts the attention of those with huge piles of cash from their ill-gotten gains (and even bigger egos) to buy the item for an absurdly inflated amount..... in fact the bigger the hype, the more desirable the item is seen in the public's imagination, the more they'll be prepared to overpay, it's all the better to them as it strokes their ego all the more! Another self perpetuating feedback loop.
Now it's fine by me if anyone is happy to buy into all this, just so long as they don't expect me to join in and believe their bullshit.
 
Foo2rama
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Oh man, feeling the great green-eyed monster!

My brother and I visited the Longines museum last year. As you know, it's an amazing museum. Out of all the watches and exhibits, I took two pictures of watches. You can guess one of them:

20231026_155105.jpg 20231026_160520.jpg



You've got an amazing watch!

Thanks and they are surprisingly affordable, some turds out there and some aftermarket dials out there. I paid considerably under 3k for mine. Takes some hunting but totally worth it.
 
pdxleaf
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
Now it's fine by me if anyone is happy to buy into all this, just so long as they don't expect me to join in and believe their bullshit.

Would you feel the same about one of McQueen cars? 😁
 
Pastorbottle
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Would you feel the same about one of McQueen cars? 😁
Yes I would, I find cars, watches etc desirable for what they are, not for their celebrity associations.
For example if I had the wherewithal to be in the market for a Porsche 917K I would be more interested in the best car available, rather than
paying over the odds for one of the cars used to make the movie, just because it was in the film and driven by McQueen, I wouldn't even pay a premium for one of the cars that actually won the race! it's the car itself that interests me, not the peripheral nonsense.
It's the people who couldn't really care less about the car/watch/whatever that only want's it for it's rub with fame that I wonder about
 
Peemacgee
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So, your argument has changed from pouring doubt on the provenance of the watches to
“I don’t value celebrity”

That’s fine, I don’t value celebrity either - but there are those who do and that leads to desirability.

And these 6 watches have their own celebrity by appearing in a very famous film on a very famous wrist.

we all overpay for ‘old watches’ due to their desirability.
Some watches due to scarcity ( condition, numbers available etc) are worth vastly more than others on the open market.

The Monaco watch is desirable in its re-issued form due to its appearance on McQueen’s wrist in the Le Mans film.
Contemporaneous vintage versions are desirable for the same reason.

Now conflate movie buffs, McQueen fans, watch collectors and petrolheads.

You end up with a perfect storm of desirability.

You might not agree with the resultant market value but it simply is what it is - no point in getting bent out of shape about it.
 
Pastorbottle
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Back to the provenance of these items, is there documented proof that all the watches were used by McQueen eg. Watch serial# xxxxxxx was used in scene 27 etc or are we relying on some blokes memory of something that happened over 55 years ago which would’ve been pretty inconsequential at the time.
 
Peemacgee
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
Back to the provenance of these items, is there documented proof that all the watches were used by McQueen eg. Watch serial# xxxxxxx was used in scene 27 etc or are we relying on some blokes memory of something that happened over 55 years ago which would’ve been pretty inconsequential at the time.

have you actually read the linked article?
Here is the relevant bit

“At the request of Le Mans’ prop master, Don Nunley, Heuer sent six reference 1133B Monacos with blue dials to the production. Two of the six were fitted with stainless steel bracelets, while four had leather straps, such as the one pictured in a now iconic photo of McQueen wearing his Gulf-striped racing suit. The actor portrayed the fictional race car driver Michael Delaney in director Lee H. Katzin’s cinematic ode to endurance racing. According to a 2016 Wall Street Journal story, Nunley said that McQueen wore all six at some point, though there’s no way of knowing which piece was on McQueen’s wrist in any given scene.”

It isn’t just some bloke and whilst it is only his word of his recollection it’s about as good as it gets.


We get that you don’t value the provenance but a lot of people will ( quite reasonably ) value the provenance -and in the end that is all that matters.
 
Foo2rama
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Pastorbottle Pastorbottle
Yes I would, I find cars, watches etc desirable for what they are, not for their celebrity associations.
For example if I had the wherewithal to be in the market for a Porsche 917K I would be more interested in the best car available, rather than
paying over the odds for one of the cars used to make the movie, just because it was in the film and driven by McQueen, I wouldn't even pay a premium for one of the cars that actually won the race! it's the car itself that interests me, not the peripheral nonsense.
It's the people who couldn't really care less about the car/watch/whatever that only want's it for it's rub with fame that I wonder about

917k’s used in the movie don’t have higher value then others. Specs and racing history matter more.

I’ve been lucky to spend time with one of the Chevron B16’s from that movie.

I guess that I should tell my friend that his Tolman F1 car that was Sennas first F1 car is worth just as much as any other car from that season though, maybe less since it was not successful.
 
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