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Speedy Tuesday – A Blue Dial Speedmaster 105.003 On Auction

  1. smitty190373 Nov 11, 2018

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    Yes
     
  2. MaiLollo Nov 11, 2018

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    The watch market is too easy to manipulate. Buy a stock of a certain model, sell 2/3 at auction, have them reach astronomical prices by having your friends bid on them, and sell the rest of them on the open market for crazy prices...
     
  3. BlueBoy Nov 11, 2018

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    This is exactly why if I am buying something at Auction, I have to be there in person at the sale, I always stay at the back of the room, then you can actually see if there are any genuine bidders in the room. Admittedly I haven't bought any watches at auction, but have bought Houses, and high value Classic Cars...
     
    Spacefruit and shishy like this.
  4. Martin 123 Nov 11, 2018

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    The 2915-1 went for quite a bit lower than was being bandied about. Talks of a world record! Could the dial have been enhanced or treated in any way?
     
  5. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 11, 2018

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    @LeonDeBayonne so if I was to sell a car that’s blue and and it says red on the cars documents and I fail to tell you it used to be red should you be pissed I have not told you? Sure you would!

    The fact the papers were added after is fraudulent enough let alone the old owner actually calling Phillips and telling them that the papers did not come with that watch and the bezel and hand had been changed, only to be threatened by possible legal action, that to me smells of ‘we don’t want the world to know that, because it looks legit enough’ which is the biggest pile of shite in my book. It’s also not the first time they have made up crap regarding sough after watches... remember the McQueen Rolex how it was miraculously born again and it was never destroyed in a fire, then for the Steve McQueen trustees to come out and say ‘this is not real and we don’t endorse it’ in so many words.

    It’s fraudulent!

    You can rig anything if you try hard enough.
     
  6. jhross98 Nov 11, 2018

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    I know the buyer of the tropical 2915-1.. He was shocked to win. He said the pictures do not come close to how good this watch is in person (and he is a world expert )
     
  7. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 11, 2018

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    I might also add...

    See the attached photo.

    If you think you are bidding alone at a Christie’s sale, a member of their staff could quite easily be shill bidding on an item!



    0CAB7BF1-9D60-4E41-B4E6-A98C69338574.jpeg
     
  8. 89-0 Nov 11, 2018

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    Fascinating stuff. Interesting that the blog posting in the OP hasn't been updated or taken down pending further investigation from the author.
     
  9. LeonDeBayonne Nov 11, 2018

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    True. But that's for the obvious, e.g. when papers do not match. If dials and hands had been swapped, you would not know unless original owner speaks up. And if you suspect it, it's your opinion and against theirs.
     
  10. default Nov 11, 2018

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    im sorry but isn't faking papers on purpose something anyone of us would go straight to jail if caught? there has to be a difference between leaving out a swapped second hand (against a reference-correct one) on purpose and simply faking official documents to a watch to enhance its value. what do you guys think is the legal situation regarding these fake papers?

    if I would buy a watch from a local watch dealer and thereafter receive proof that he faked the papers of the watch I wouldn't just ask for a refund, I would probably go to the police. Its not a "mistake that happened" - its simply fraud. or?
     
  11. BlackTalon This Space for Rent Nov 11, 2018

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    And they would probably tell you to go get your money back.
     
  12. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 11, 2018

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    So are you saying that if no one knew that the papers matched Phillips would be ok in selling?

    Unfortunately, I hate to say it but it’s people like your good self that end up getting scammed and cry wolf because you didn’t do the due-diligence on the item, then expect other people to pick up the pieces!

    I have one word for you which ever way you look at it...

    FRAUDULENT
     
    JimJupiter, BlueBoy, MaiLollo and 4 others like this.
  13. Apollo13 Nov 11, 2018

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    The papers were filled out with a ballpoint pen. Research when the ballpoint pen was invented. Then look at the dates of the watch. I guess forgers don’t do the same due diligence they used to.

    In the auction world, the use of the ballpoint/rollerball pen has many a time stopped me from bidding. Sad really.
     
    Edited Nov 11, 2018
  14. LeonDeBayonne Nov 11, 2018

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    No, I did not say that at all. I just said that this one is an easy catch (no matching papers). And for one that is caught, how many went through at auctions or through dealers ? Of course, you have to make a claim for mistake or fraud and prevent the sale from completing. I am 100% with you. But when the matter for discussion becomes more subject for interpretation (dial period, hands…), this is where it becomes much tougher to speak up against auction houses and dealers.
     
    Edited Nov 11, 2018
  15. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 11, 2018

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    Christie’s are just as bad!

    C5E107CA-D00D-4C1A-AD39-9A0F9D3F4339.png
     
  16. MaiLollo Nov 11, 2018

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    Very interesting read. I love how Jeff just says it how he sees it, when compared to other major blogs, who just look the other way because it’s in their best interest...
     
    chronoboy64 likes this.
  17. ac106 Nov 11, 2018

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    No. People don’t go to prison for this sort of thing.
     
  18. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 11, 2018

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    Something has to be done to stop this!

    It’s criminal and everyone seems to just bid away to their hearts content.

    Your right they don’t for adding papers, but fraudulently selling things and falsely making shite up and taking people’s money for it is illigal
     
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  19. ac106 Nov 11, 2018

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    Yes but what I am stressing is that you are not incarcerated for this sort of thing. I’m not making a value judgment just stating a fact. I’m in the industry so it’s a nit to pick for me. Sorry
     
    ConElPueblo likes this.
  20. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 11, 2018

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    I understand that.

    Still deception and fraudulent