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Speedy Tuesday - A Blue Dial Speedmaster 105.003 On Auction

Cad290
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DLT222 DLT222
I can categorically tell you that the papers did not come from this watch, I also know that the chrono hand and the bezel have been changed before the auction which never saw it selling?

How do I know this you ask? Well that's simple, I know the owner of it before he sold it to the present owner who put it in for auction. I also have photos of the watch before he sold it, he says it never had papers at all they have been added at a later date!

Phillips even threatened the guy with legal action!
They threatened the previous owner with legal action if he said something true about the watch??? Damn! I was sad to see the high bid only get to 55,000 chf as I own one of these. It probably could have sold if they didn’t try putting faked papers with it
 
DLT222
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Cad290 Cad290
They threatened the previous owner with legal action if he said something true about the watch??? Damn! I was sad to see the high bid only get to 55,000 chf as I own one of these. It probably could have sold if they didn’t try putting faked papers with it

Correct! I also own one of these and was watching it closely.

It shows as 'Passed' on the auction.
 
Cad290
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DLT222 DLT222
Correct! I also own one of these and was watching it closely.

It shows as 'Passed' on the auction.
Yes I guess they didn’t want to sell it for less than 60k chf
 
DLT222
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Cad290 Cad290
Yes I guess they didn’t want to sell it for less than 60k chf

Who knows. There is now a shit storm surrounding this watch so for me, knowing what I know its like the kiss of death!
 
DLT222
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One other thing that the ex-owner states is that the papers would not have been written in English in parts for example 'Mexico City' but written

“Ciudad de Mexico” or “Mexico Distrito Federal” in the countries actual native language.

I also think the link looks a little 'fresh'
 
padders
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Robert-Jan Robert-Jan
This is the official statement from Omega and I have no real reason to doubt it. I haven't seen a 2nd extract for this same watch with different dates on there. The information on this extract comes from their books (the paper ones) in which they kept a record of watches shipped and sold. I really don't see the issue here, as (only) the production date of the movement is known at Omega and is before May 1964. I don't believe in conspiracy theories anyway ;-)
The extract says 'production date' not, 'whatever date we happen to have'. This whole episode stinks. People pay their 120CHF or whatever on the basis that they are getting in return the day their watch was born. Usually it seems that is what happens, here all of a sudden there is a new definition of production date. After, what, 20 years of issuing extracts, and it seems no previous Soleil dial ones. Even without Darren's comments above (which rather joins the dots) it leaves a bad taste. Are you sure it is an official statement or just some Philips bs? You may wish to look at this closer, as you look a little out of touch here, particularly bearing in mind the revelations above.

If really all they have in the records is when the batch payment was received then the extract should say that. Not something else, something more concrete with another meaning.

The most likely explanation is that the date on the extract is right and date on the 'papers', well lets say less so...
Edited:
 
DLT222
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That would mean every single extract ever issued would be ‘Payment Date’ not ‘Production Date’ and I don’t buy it.

Let’s take a a watch that has original papers to the watch from new dated 10/10/66, extract should be before 10/10/66 no questions.
 
Spacefruit
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The watch itself was heavily polished on the case back - unusually so, there was no bevel left.

The movement was corroded, to be fair not badly, but badly enough to suggest poor care and some water ingress.

The dial itself was very disappointing, it was pockmarked and the finish had dulled. Perhaps from the same moisture, I cannot speculate.
Having been lucky enough to own several of these blue dials, this one was a poor representation, giving no pleasure in hand and I am not surprised no one wanted to pay the CHF55k the auctioneer went to. Even the pet phone bidder they had lined up changed their mind and did not bid at the last minute. The last thing the auctioneer said was as an aside, " We will get hold of him and sell it to him for the reserve". I can only think the phone bidder did not view the watch - just the photos. No one would buy that watch for that money.

This was a really good lesson for a new buyer to learn. The auctioneer knows this watch has a problem, yet it is his job to enthusiastically capture bids off the wall, up to his book reserve and then sell to the one and only buyer. Some people take great reassurance that buying at auction means that someone else at least values the lot as well. This is not always the case - you might be the only schmuck ready to buy it, and the auctioneers antics, I am sorry, tactics, confuse you into thinking there is more interest in the room than there is.

This lot, like many of the speedmasters in this sale, was estimated high. The 2915's were spectacular, and I expected them to go for more, but I think the high estimates put people off even thinking of trying.
 
padders
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oddboy oddboy
Blue Dial Compare2.png
Clearly same watch. Replaced bezel and fabricated papers. Philips should be ashamed, it is borderline fraud, particularly the papers nonsense. Omega haven't come out of this well with their bs extract explanation. If they had said nothing it would have been better. Perhaps they did say nothing and Philips put words in their mouth, so to speak.
 
padders
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Just noticed that it appears to have no crystal in the pics above too, which may explain why the dial looks so lived in, or it may just have been removed for the pics I guess.
Edited:
 
LeonDeBayonne
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padders padders
Clearly same watch. Replaced bezel and fabricated papers. Philips should be ashamed, it is borderline fraud, particularly the papers nonsense. Omega haven't come out of this well with their bs extract explanation. If they had said nothing it would have been better. Perhaps they did say nothing and Philips put words in their mouth, so to speak.

Why would they be? Everybody's happy. Even the guy who could have bought the watch. The auction would have made the watch legit, and hence, available for sale at a good profit a couple of years later. And so on… Until this little game collapses like a house of cards.
 
LeonDeBayonne
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smitty190373 smitty190373
why?

Because it would have officially appeared in an auction, validated by the auction house's experts and got sold. The new owner could still refer to this event in case of doubt. Would you challenge someone who tells you that his/her watch has been scrutinized and sold THROUGH one the most sophisticated watch auction houses (which can call many merchants-experts to confirm a watch is 100%-legit)? All the players' interests are perfectly aligned here.
Edited:
 
LeonDeBayonne
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LeonDeBayonne LeonDeBayonne
Because it would have officially appeared in an auction, validated by the auction house's experts and got sold. The new owner could still refer to this event in case of doubt. Would you challenge someone who tells you that his/her watch has been scrutinized and sold by one the most sophisticated watch auction houses (which can call many merchants-experts to confirm a watch is 100%-legit)? All the players' interests are perfectly aligned here.

I don't believe in conspiration theories either. I just believe that there are too many interests aligned for this game not to be rigged.
 
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