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  1. eelpie Mar 16, 2018

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    I bought a pretty nice 145.022-69 Hippocampus case-back model yesterday, and I'd like to know:

    Was the Cal. 321 ever used in this model? I am afraid to force the dust cover, so I don't know the serial or caliber yet.

    What is the correct bracelet for my watch? It came with an incorrect Hecho En Mexico (Mark II, Mark III?) bracelet by Holzer Y Cia. and I'd like to find a good bracelet for it.

    Luckily the watch came at a right price, and it's running like a freight train . . .
     
  2. bags1971 Mar 16, 2018

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    pictures?
     
  3. Dash1 Mar 16, 2018

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    Pictures! But no, the 321 never came in this case and the bracelet might be original. Dust cap can be eased off with a scalpel blade at the join. But we need pictures.
     
    oddboy likes this.
  4. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Mar 16, 2018

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    regarding the dust cover, if you use a pen knife or something, slide it in under the edge of the dust cover *on the side where the crown goes into the movement*. the stem for the crown will ensure that the movement doesn't lift out of the case while you're prying. it shouldn't take a huge amount of force, but they can get a bit sticky if unopened for a long time. Best bet really is to get it to a watchmaker and have them open it for you.

    use this handy chart to get an idea of which bracelet would be most appropriate, though your Holzer may be original too.

    https://omegaforums.net/attachments/omega-speedmaster-bracelet-history-png.154102/

    Edit: and of course, we need pics!
     
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  5. Faz Mar 16, 2018

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    Hey Doug,

    Likely that a pre-moon 145.022 caseback was fitted to a 145.012 example if for any odd reason there’s a 321 in there. The .022 reference never came with the 321 caliber.

    EDIT: I knew there was something missing in my reply.

    Cheers

    Faz
     
    Edited Mar 16, 2018
    padders likes this.
  6. nonuffinkbloke #1 Nigel Mansell Fan Mar 16, 2018

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    I
    I think your watch may have been originally marketed in Latin America, with the Holzer bracelet, between 1967 and the 1980's. Mstanga's bracelet chart can give you more details on this. The Holzer bracelet had "Hecho En Mexico on the inside of the clasp. So your bracelet may be correct and original. Use the link to the chart that @oddboy posted for you.:thumbsup:
     
    Edited Mar 16, 2018
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  7. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Mar 16, 2018

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    If you are unsure and have a phone with a 'high speed' video recording capability, you can do a high speed capture of the chronograph ticking for more then 1 sec, and count how many times it 'ticks' in 1 second. 321 beats at 18000bph (so 5 ticks per second) and a 861 is 21600bph (so 6 ticks per second).
     
  8. Maitreyoda007 Mar 16, 2018

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    Last ref for the 321 is 145.012-68 ;)
     
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  9. padders Oooo subtitles! Mar 16, 2018

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    No that is much less likely than when he lifts the dust cover it is an 861 underneath don't you think? The most likely outcome is the one to expect.
     
  10. Faz Mar 16, 2018

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    I've seen different movements and parts shoehorned into pre-moon Speedmasters before. Nothing new there although we won't know until Doug has this watch opened and pictures posted.
     
  11. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Mar 16, 2018

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    Long or short hour markers? Painted or applied logo?
     
  12. padders Oooo subtitles! Mar 16, 2018

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    Uhuh but you said it was likely that it has had a caseback swap. No it isn't, it is the less likely explanation. What is likely is that there is a 861 underneath the cover since that what every -69 Speedmaster left the factory with. Go for the simplest explanation, to suggest the outcome with lower probability was 'likely' is not logical. I think I would give 50-1 against there being a 321 under that cover. An 861 and a few paperclips is more 'likely'.
     
    Edited Mar 16, 2018
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  13. Faz Mar 16, 2018

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    Anything is possible...we can speculate all we want. We'll know once it's been cracked open. My point was based on his comments that à swapped caseback was likely or possible...as wel as what you advance. So whatever you want..
     
  14. Vicke Mar 16, 2018

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    What makes you think there’s a 321 in the watch? Lots of suggestions how to find out, and you should, but is there anything on the outside of it suggestion it’s not correct -69?
    Or am I missing something?
     
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  15. eelpie Mar 16, 2018

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    I am pretty sure the bracelet is incorrect as the end pieces don't fit between the lugs . . .

    Omega_145.022A.JPG

    Omega_145.022B.JPG

    Omega_145.022C.JPG

    "What makes you think there’s a 321 in the watch?"

    I'm pretty sure I asked a simple question without implying anything of the kind.
     
  16. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Mar 16, 2018

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    I'm afraid that now we've got the pics it's not looking good.
     
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  17. padders Oooo subtitles! Mar 16, 2018

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    No step? Service dial maybe? The likelihood of 861 increased further.
     
    Edited Mar 16, 2018
  18. Maitreyoda007 Mar 16, 2018

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    Don't give a buck for this Speed...:eek:
     
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  19. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Mar 16, 2018

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    I don't think the likelihood of 861 was ever in doubt until someone came up with the idea that the caseback was changed.
     
    padders likes this.
  20. chronoboy64 Mar 16, 2018

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    new definition for "pretty nice" here :mad:
     
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