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  1. swish77 Apr 18, 2018

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    Hi, All:

    Just looking for some opinions on this Speedy 105.012, serial #22825XXX. Pretty much checks out for correctness from what I can tell and have read on the forum and elsewhere, with the squat pushers, flat-foot crown and the 1506 bracelet that you can't really see in the photo. End links are # 16s.

    My questions would really be about the patina on the tritium, dial versus the hands. The patina on the main chrono arrow hand seems to match the dial, but not the main hour and minute hands, although I realize patina can develop differently. Wondering if anything might have been relumed/touched up. I wish the case was a little crisper.

    Any thoughts/opinions are most welcome.
     
    imagejpeg_0.jpg
    Edited Apr 18, 2018
  2. td69 Apr 18, 2018

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    Hard to justify the lumes from the current photo. Do you have some more closed-up photos that you can share with us?
     
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  3. mr_yossarian Apr 18, 2018

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    Exactly, so the least to worry about. First question I tend to have : is it from Italy? If not, proceed with the usual ticked box procedure.
     
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  4. swish77 Apr 18, 2018

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    Here's another photo. Ha! No, not from Italy!
     
    imagejpeg_0.jpg
  5. nonuffinkbloke #1 Nigel Mansell Fan Apr 18, 2018

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    My initial thought is in the form of a question: On an original dial, when the lume spreads out beyond the markers, wouldn't we expect to see some loss of lume within the marker area?

    On the pictures you have posted it appears that the lume extends beyond the markers but there appears to be no patches of loss within the marker area.::confused2:: I think we need some expert opinion on this one.
     
  6. gdupree Apr 18, 2018

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    I have heard of some references showing this type of "wobbly" lume. Check out the watch in this thread, and another similar example in the reply's from another member. The lume looks less aged one the example in that thread, probably from being stored in better conditions, but if you look closely it also shows this sort of crooked lume applications:

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/about-to-pull-the-vintage-speedmaster-trigger.74025/#post-937350

    If I remember correctly, I've heard some members mention that they've seen this type of wobbly lume more often on 105.012's specifically, but you should certainly do some more research to see if you can verify that. Perhaps some of the other speedmaster guru's can weigh in on that possibility.

    Edit:
    another similar looking lume example from @padders 105.003-65 from this thread (his photo added for ease of viewing):
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/help-on-straight-lug-speedy.60532/page-5#post-898110

    9B07C305-085A-48A6-92E8-FAF7F7EA6535.jpeg
     
    Edited Apr 18, 2018
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  7. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Apr 18, 2018

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    i would hesitate to use the appearance of 105.003 dials to judge a 105.012. Just because it is OK on a 105003 does not make it OK on a 105012. It is best to keep comparisons to the same reference as from my observations the lume appearance between those two references is quite different.

    I have not seen "wobbly lume" on an original 105.012.

    I took the photo and cropped and pushed it a bit.

    lumo on a 105012.jpg

    So we have lume plots that look grainy, undefined, curved ends running over the ends, and generally not as crisp as usually seen in 105012. The colour is rankling in my spidey sense. Do these plots look original to you? (They do not to me, but from one photo I would not call it for sure).

    The hands have a solid, greenish lime to them. Unusual again in this reference, but not unheard of. The hands are very clean. They dont gel to my eyes with the rest of the watch.

    The Centre seconds hand has a dark, unrelated lume colour on the tip. It is also very clean

    I would say that I would be thinking to check that the hands are original, thinking the lume might have been laid on and that the second hand is definitely added, or restored, or re lumed or all of those.

    None of these things is a crime. However someone knows for sure if they have been altered, and it should be the seller unless he is a clueless person. In other words a dealer or collector should know from his own due dilligence what has happened to the watch, or at the very least be able to tell by holding the watch and using a loupe.

    I know several dealers who are quite happy to sell a relumed watch claiming "It could be relumed, I dont know" When they are the ones who sent it for re luming. I also know several people who hapilly own a re lumed watch knowing it is relumed, and knowing it looks so much better re lumed than white plots with all the lume scraped off.

    Now what is a shame, is that if I was going to relume, replace hands and re lume the chrono, I would make them all look a lot nicer than this. The hands and the dial do not look to me like they haved lived all thier life untouched in the same watch, but it is just a hunch.

    So its all down to price, and how attractive you find it.

    Or is it cheap enough to live with how it looks?
     
  8. padders Oooo subtitles! Apr 18, 2018

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    Wobbly lume is indeed a feature of the -65 Ed Whites, as noted above and on several examples on SP101 and in MWO. Mine (a one previous owner unrestored watch) is pretty wobbly in places alright. I can’t say I have noticed it occurring in the Pro dials as much though to be honest. I don’t know enough to call redial or not but I don’t think mine is necessarily a good reference point for a Pro, different dial design, different case maker etc.

    EDIT. I cross posted with Mr Fruit!
     
    Edited Apr 18, 2018
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  9. swish77 Apr 18, 2018

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    Thank you all for such thorough, insightful replies. This watch is listed at about $15K, as an FYI.
     
  10. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Apr 18, 2018

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    The lume colors are what I can’t get around. Then, as you say, not a crisp example. For $15k I think you can do much better...albeit with patience.
     
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  11. Davidt Apr 18, 2018

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    Blood and sand! Have these gone up that much? I'll answer my own question, no they haven't, that's too much for this example.
     
  12. chronoboy64 Apr 18, 2018

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    +1
     
  13. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Apr 18, 2018

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    I'd like to see it a) in natural light, and b) under uv. You can discern a lot from a decent uv pic.
     
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  14. 105012 Apr 18, 2018

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    Lume is fully covering the markers and quite uniform, almost looks flat in the picture. Especially noticeable on the two dots at 12. On my -65 these are more 3D in appearance. Bit strange how the dots descend on the step, don't see that on my -65.

    Lume on hands looks quite reasonable to me.