Speedmaster Rare Dial

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Spacefruit

·Jul 23, 2023·Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder

I post this just to prod us all into posting more Speedmaster threads.

Here is a very rare dialled 105.012-63.

The extract states:

Several things to note.

The "Light Silvered Blue Sunburst" dials are seen most commonly on Ed Whites, but I have seen them on a 2998 and more than one 145.012.

Most that I know of have confirming extracts.

At least one similar dial plate was fitted without feet to a watch offered at auction. WOK had one that failed to sell, as it was a loose dial without provenance.

The extract, while confirming the dial, might now, along with all "special" extracts, be called into question - however I have no worries I think these dials are factory fitted where specified.

There are variations in dial style. Some long markers, some professional marked, but there are so few, that we cannot say if there is a correlation between styles and references.

The received wisdom is there is around 20 Blue Silvered dials in existence, but this figure is not based on anything more than a guess based on public sales.

 

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watchyouwant

·Jul 23, 2023

The excerpt states" sun brushed " , which is not an agreed description term. I'd even question that excerpt now. The only thing, I've seen in the Flesh, are these dials on Dial Factory Sample Books. All without Dial Feet. Which are not difficult to fit with the correct equipment.

 

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padders

·Jul 23, 2023·Oooo subtitles!

Was the extract issued without a photo or mention of the dial? If so that is very interesting. If not then errr as you say it may be not fully reliable.

It is very interesting if factory fit that it has no Professional marking as I had always believed that no such combo of twisted lug and non Pro dial existed other than in illustrations or Frankens. It is a very early twisted lug mode l so perhaps a few were released with the non Pro dial in this era. Then again The wide Ts and short indices are also noteworthy and a little strange on a dial purportedly made in 1964 or earlier. Many (most?) -63s have no Ts at all or asymmetric Ts, and -64s to -66s have them narrow set. Surely Ts like that werent seen until 1968 on normal series dials so again I would question whether this might be a marriage, a marriage made in Italy as many weird Omegas seem to be.

Edited: Jul 27, 2023

 

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M'Bob

·Jul 23, 2023

Despite all the questions, it’s a very appealing watch.

I think most of us who have been banging around here for a decade or more have seen almost every example of 2915-145.022 and limited editions ad nauseum, so anything that’s aesthetically off the beaten track is interesting to look at.

 

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hanky6

·Jul 23, 2023

Dibs.
Such a lovely colour, this is my grail watch.

 

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Linesiders

·Jul 23, 2023·Stripers, not snook.

Dang, That is sweet, and interesting!

 

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Archer

·Jul 23, 2023·Omega Qualified Watchmaker

padders

Was the extract issued without a photo or mention of the dial?

The million dollar question...

 

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Aroxx

·Jul 23, 2023

Archer

The 3 million dollar question...

FIFY

 

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ortope

·Jul 23, 2023

Nice watch, but wrong chronological hand...

Cheers

 

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pdxleaf

·Jul 23, 2023

Some questions* about extracts:

Assuming Omega will begin to issue extracts again, it would be interesting to request another extract on a watch such as this (that has a dial description) to see if Omega returns the same detailed information. This new request would need to not mention or photograph the dial.

Since the request must come from a person who owns the watch, is there anyone who has an extract that lists the dial info who has also requested an updated extract, just to see if Omega returns the same details?

Or is this unnecessary, as it is generally accepted that Omega does not have dial data, so any extract with dial data is invalid? Or are extracts only suspicious before a certain date, such as 2020? (I know this was discussed elsewhere but I don't remember the details.)

*There's also a group who find no value at all in extracts. While that opinion is valid, this question is naturally not for someone with that thought. Again, not arguing whether extracts have any merit.

 

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JohnSteed

·Jul 23, 2023

Thx for posting @Spacefruit .... have seen blue on a so-called soleil metallic dial on Ed Whites but of course not many out there. Sliceoftime also showed a grey Soleil for a 105.012 on which the hour markers extend on that example the full length as normal. Nice looking example here too on yours! Nice, rare find

Spacefruit

I post this just to prod us all into posting more Speedmaster threads.

Here is a very rare dialled 105.012-63.

The extract states:

Several things to note.

The "Light Silvered Blue Sunburst" dials are seen most commonly on Ed Whites, but I have seen them on a 2998 and more than one 145.012.

Most that I know of have confirming extracts.

At least one similar dial plate was fitted without feet to a watch offered at auction. WOK had one that failed to sell, as it was a loose dial without provenance.

The extract, while confirming the dial, might now, along with all "special" extracts, be called into question - however I have no worries I think these dials are factory fitted where specified.

There are variations in dial style. Some long markers, some professional marked, but there are so few, that we cannot say if there is a correlation between styles and references.

The received wisdom is there is around 20 Blue Silvered dials in existence, but this figure is not based on anything more than a guess based on public sales.

 

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JohnSteed

·Jul 23, 2023

Does Omega consult collectors (anyone outside Omega) on wording of extracts ?

 

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ortope

·Jul 23, 2023

As far as I know they only check the archive data that they have.
For example: For the ref. 105.012-66 they don' t care if the case was made by HF or CB...

Cheers

 

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pdxleaf

·Jul 23, 2023

JohnSteed

Does Omega consult collectors (anyone outside Omega) on wording of extracts ?

When a person submitted an extract request, Omega used to allow a person to add descriptive details, such as "sunburst blue dial". Apparently, Omega was more willing to then add that user submitted description to the extract, as opposed to including on the extract only data that came out of their archives.

In this sense, Omega would consult a collector. Not sure if this correctly addressed your question.

 

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JohnSteed

·Jul 23, 2023

Cool, ..., that makes sense @pdxleaf . OP posted a good topic starter/photo!!

It would be interesting if Omega corresponded with collectors/watch owners in same manner as Longines. Have had discussions on watch authenticity over email with Longines that have been informative beyond the extract. For example, would be interesting to understand why the inclusion of "Professional" on the dial..er, extract. That's what is at odds with the dial.

 

R

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roh123

·Jul 23, 2023

We all know that extracts was ordered with information and pictures. It is what it is. It is more ephemera than authentication regardless if it says red chronograph hand or something else. To me it is as nice to have as a box, paper or whatever. Each to their own to believe, value and charish. Hopefully most watches are what they appear to be.

On-topic: Gorgeous Speedmaster!

 

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watchyouwant

·Jul 23, 2023

Professional on the Dial ? Sure, because these Sample Dials were made in the 70's , as far as I know. Made by Dial manufacturers in the Hope, OMEGA would order them for a new variant of Speedmaster. Like the metallic blue TV Dial version aso. Like some Rolex and Tudor Dial Sample Book examples , that found the way to dealers and eBay.

 

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Seaborg

·Jul 23, 2023

Mine says hi.
The watch is a 2915 (as per the extract) and was serviced many times by Omega during its past life. My guess is that the dial and hands were swapped due to either damage or due to the new radium regulation.

 

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pdxleaf

·Jul 23, 2023

Seaborg

Mine says hi.
The watch is a 2915 (as per the extract) and was serviced many times by Omega during its past life. My guess is that the dial and hands were swapped due to either damage or due to the new radium regulation.

Similar colored lume, too.

 

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OneTwo

·Jul 23, 2023

pdxleaf

Some questions* about extracts:

Assuming Omega will begin to issue extracts again, it would be interesting to request another extract on a watch such as this (that has a dial description) to see if Omega returns the same detailed information. This new request would need to not mention or photograph the dial.

Since the request must come from a person who owns the watch, is there anyone who has an extract that lists the dial info who has also requested an updated extract, just to see if Omega returns the same details?

Or is this unnecessary, as it is generally accepted that Omega does not have dial data, so any extract with dial data is invalid? Or are extracts only suspicious before a certain date, such as 2020? (I know this was discussed elsewhere but I don't remember the details.)

*There's also a group who find no value at all in extracts. While that opinion is valid, this question is naturally not for someone with that thought. Again, not arguing whether extracts have any merit.

FWIW Here is a photo of the extract I received last August for my Seamaster 166.028 in which the issued extract that I received noted the dial as “silvered”.

I don’t recall if there were remarks provided regarding the dial when the extract request was made but I had to include photos since this was submitted online. That said I have another identical example of this reference with the silver color concentric dial with orange seconds hand and if/when Omega resumes the extract requests I plan on requesting an extract for that one. I am actually quite curious to see how it will turn out as well since, being in the US, I will have to request at the boutique and when I have requested extracts from the OB before pictures are not required or provided to the Heritage Department.