Speedmaster Originality Help

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Hello,

Fairly new to the vintage watch scene and learn more every day. I have seen this one for sale and would like options on the originality of this watch.

321 movement serial number 2208xxxx

Thank you in advance for your input.

 
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Greetings and welcome to OF.
Do you have specific questions about the watch? What research have you done and what are your thoughts?
The most efficient place to learn about vintage Speedmasters: speedmaster101.com
 
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Thanks for the welcome.
I have done some reading in this forum along with anything I can find on the internet, and this watch seems to be original unless I am missing something. In my novice opinion the dial and bezel appear to be original and unrestored, as do the hands. I am not sure about the crown and the pushers and if they are original to the watch. Everything about the movement and the case seems correct to me. The band that is on the watch is not important to me and not of any concern.

I am looking for a 105.003 or earlier and just want to make sure what I am buying is original as possible. To me, this watch is original and what I am looking for, I am looking for some help in pointing out something I might be missing. This is a big purchase for me, and I am okay with that, but I am not confidant enough to feel good about pulling the trigger.

Thank you for any insight you want to share.
 
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OP - We have heard this tale far too frequently. If say you want advice, but you don't share what is the asking price? Telling.

You need to really peruse through speedmaster101 as has been already advised. And going by your assessment - which is very generous- I would advise treading very carefully with an expensive purchase. Best if you wait and buy through the private sales section here. Presently there is nice beginner 321 145.012-67 listed if you care check.
 
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The asking price is $10,500. You state my assessment is very generous, that's the information I am looking for. Just want to know what makes my opinion generous, so in the furture my assessments are more realistic. Thank you
 
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The dial photos are too blurred to assess condition particularly when enlarged.
Need detailed photos of all lugs and caseback to assess case, polishing, sharpness of caseback double bevel
movement SN is correct for this reference
Service history? Hour subdial shows hour creep which requires service but would want to service it anyway
Crown is replaced with later one.
Hands look correct but can’t say if original to watch
Any info regarding seller? A known dealer or random stranger? Auction house? Info on this impt to reduce risk.
And price of course. Price chart on speedmaster101.com with help how to assess condition.
IMO you need a lot more info before pulling trigger here.
Good luck and post more info here for more feedback.
 
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If you look in Private Sales here on OF there is a nice EdWhite for sale to compare. As new member you can DM seller and buy something here. Advantage is trusted sellers
 
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Thank you, I will take a look at items for sale here and review Speedmaster 101. Also thank you for your opinions on the watch.
 
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A few thoughts from me, for what they are worth.

Firstly, you are looking at a 105.003-64, which is a comparatively scarce reference. There was an interesting discussion here some time ago suggesting that at least some -64 cases had uniquely flat-sided lugs, and from these photos this case does appear to show that characteristic.

Going through it in the usual way:

The dial is unfortunately too out of focus to assess properly. That is really the heart of the watch, and without sharper images it is impossible to judge the actual surface condition. The lume plots either appear heavily degraded or potentially re-worked. What makes me lean slightly toward re-work is that the hands themselves look to have been repainted and re-lumed. Its just a feeling

At this price level, though, that alone would not make me dismiss the watch.

The bezel is a genuine DON, which is positive, although personally I think the market slightly over-romanticises heavily faded grey bezels. Condition-wise it is quite worn.

The crown is almost certainly later. It appears to be the later fat-logo type rather than the earlier narrow-logo crown. That said, later Ed Whites are often seen with 32-tooth service crowns, so this is very common territory.

The pushers are harder to call. They look a little unusual to me, but they are old, and may well be period/original.

The movement looks clean, but again the photography makes it difficult to assess with confidence.

The case has the flat sides, and from what I see of the case back the bevels are good. I am sure it has been polished to some extent as the sides are very clean.

Overall, my instinctive impression is that the watch has a slightly “put together” feel to it, although I want to stress that this is only an impression from imperfect photographs, not a definitive conclusion. It certainly is not an untouched watch.

Equally, at around $10k, you are not shopping in the category of untouched museum-quality Ed Whites. The reality with these is always balancing originality, condition, appearance and budget. Finding a genuinely attractive Ed White at that price point is not easy, and almost every example in that range will involve compromise somewhere.

For fun, here is a 105003 that came from original owner, never even opened (Its worth a fortune) :

And here one of my watches that is in the daily wearer category, similar value to what you are looking at. It has issues, as all at the 10k mark must have. You just have to work out if you like it.

Note the lume markers are definitely original. The pushers are NOS vintage replacements. It can be very hard to find an untouched watch at this price level, and if you do, you probably need to do work on it. Don't stop looking through - it's what we all love to do.

 
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Unless you really really want a 1964 105.003 there is a very nice 1968 105.003 in the private sales that looks in far better shape.

If you are stuck on a 1964 date i think i would still shop around, the search is half the fun of owning a watch
 
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Thank you to evryone for their input, it is very informative. I apprecate it.