Speedmaster Grading ‘Good’, ‘Very Good’ and ‘Fair’ — discussing 2nd example

I did this once before, with an Ed White, and found the insights and discussion fascinating. And, I learned stuff too. So, I’m inclined to do it again. I’m hoping it’s helpful for some of you too.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/gra...y-good’-—-debating-a-specific-example.115994/







Today’s subject is a 105.012-66 HF that I’ve owned for a couple of years. I’ve had it serviced, but it hasn’t needed any parts and, other than polishing the crystal, it is as I found it. And, no, I’m not looking to sell it — I’m looking to sharpen my skills. (Please ignore the 1480 bracelet I’ve put on it. 😀)

Dial: Correct B3 dial. Other than a small drag mark in the upper right quadrant of the hours subdial, this dial looks pretty clean to me and free of damage (the crystal is flecked with small scratches). Dial lume looks original and complete; it’s sort of attractive. Crystal is, I assume, the original mid 60’s logo for the watch. (Whoo hoo!)

Hands: Correct but battered. Minute hand has lost most of its lume, hour hand some. What’s left matches the chrono second hand.

Bezel: Faded DON without any significant damage.

Case: Polished somewhat and worn, but still pretty decent. (To me, that doesn’t look like factory brushing on the sides.) Hippocampus clear, with traces of the factory swirl. One ding, on the edge of the two o’clock lug. Correct pushers and crown.

Movement: Clean and functioning. I have not applied for an extract, but the serial number is in the correct range.



I think this is closer to Very Good than to Good. The lume and paint loss in the hands, the drag mark on the dial and that ding on the lug are the things that, to my mind, hold this back.

So, what do you all think?

Fascinating! Thank you, gentlemen! I guess my ‘home team’ bias clouded my critical skills again.

So, very good is closer to excellent than it is to good?

I.e., if
factory perfect NOS is 100,
then excellent is maybe 95,
very good is maybe 85,
good is 70?

Deciding on what grade your watch falls on the Speedy 101 chart is the same as picking your price, essentially the market confirms where it belongs.

A seller can think their watch is at excellent grade, then get a shock when they price it accordingly . The same goes for a seller who receives more than they expect.

The market will always decide on the price.

In my experience very few hit the excellent grade band. If you have an attractive, correct, unpolished or lightly polished Speedmaster with original parts, you will usually be between good/very good.

Spacefruit has often said you pick a level, then start removing.

It's a nice watch, but there are several areas that will reduce its value/grade. All imo obviously.

Very fun exercise. For me personally, and I know this is harsh, the loss of lume on the hands would prevent me from buying such a watch. So fair is my grading too.

6/10 tops for me.

Thanks everyone. (Some members, whose judgement I really respect, have weighed in here.) One of the valuable lessons is that we do differ, based on personal preferences and tastes.

I wonder at how close to excellent many place very good. Particularly if this watch isn’t even good.

I agree about the lume loss to the hands being a negative, as well as the dial scrape. I’d give the watch extra points for being ‘original’ — I.e., not prepped or tarted up, with consistent bits. I’d have a hard time saying it was less than good, but that’s my opinion only. To me, there are no major flaws. The good definition includes this:

“it is likely the lowest condition most collectors or owners are happy with”

I suspected that most collectors would be happy with this example, but now I’m not so sure. I see few 321 Speedmasters that are as nice as this one — it makes me wonder just how many very good ones are out there.

Sample photos and explicit checklists would certainly help assure better ratings uniformity. (Remember, I come from a coin collecting world, where the scale goes to 70 and there are explicit rules for the grading differences.)

Thanks again! (And I thought I was picky!). 👍

Here’s the funny part.

And finally, if I were to price this watch to sell, quite apart from what the chart says, I’d price it at around $12k. Based on my following the market, I think that’s about right to motivate a collector or two's interest.

I would not feel comfortable pricing it at $14k — I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t sell at that level.

Which leads to this:

So, by the back door, I think I actually agree with you guys. Looking at it, I know what the watch is worth, roughly.

I guess dollars are a clearer evaluator than words. At least, for me.

Because, if it’s words, how is that watch not good enough to be good?

I think that chart is accounting for USD inflation and all the Trillions of USD that miraculously appear out of thin air 😉 (But I can imagine that a TOP 105.012 in like-new condition would easily fetch 24k...its everything else in between where the scepticism lies). By my rating of 6/10 you would be priced higher, however, I think (and it’s just my worthless opinion) 12k would be slow in the current market...like I said: my worthless opinion, add a teaspoon of salt and a wineglass of tequila.

In the coin world, this qualifies as good

And this is a 67, mint state.


I think I agree with you, so we’ll be worthless together.

if you had a speedy that good, 40 yrs older than a CK2915, it might rate a bit easier too...

I'll take a shot:
Case... numerous scratches, dings, polished, and all correct pieces...although not significant, still too many to rate a strong good.. good minus

Bezel...faded, some light marks, but still attractive... good

Dial...issues with hands..loss of lume and loss of paint, dial plots are discolored, blackish, thru out...fair minus (sorry)

Average... 10.5k + 14K + 6K = 9.5K - 10.1K

I believe, IMO, this price is reflective of a fair asking price in which the watch would sell

( I paid in that area for a 105.012-66 HF in the middle of last year, I believe the case and dial are in better condition, bezel is on par... only issue it has an excellent conditioned CB caseback which was probably swapped out decades ago. However, does lower the value of the watch, but, should be able to sell the caseback for near price of the HF caseback when an appropriate one shows up someday...no hurry.