Forums Latest Members
  1. Patrik83 Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    315
    Likes
    270
    Speedmaster CK 2998-1 Base 1000 Lollipop & Naiad

    Sound familiar?

    In May 2017 one was sold at Kaplans Auktioner for 960 000SEK, 92 000EUR, 103 000 USD (sn#17761184)
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-ck-2998-1-base-1000-auction.53287/

    Today one, identical from what I can see, was just sold 590 000SEK, 48 000 EUR, 55 000 USD (sn#17761128) that is just 56 in serial apart from the first!

    However this second one is not as good as the fist one (lume, scratches etc). Isn't it interesting to see that those two that are so close apart have the same set-up of parts both auctioned in Sweden? Have there been other watches with the same set-up seen?

    2500616276.jpg 2500616276_1.jpg 2500616276_2.jpg 2500616276_5.jpg 2500616276_4.jpg 2500616276_3.jpg 2500616276_7.jpg 2500616276_6.jpg 2500616276_8.jpg 2500616276_9.jpg
     
    Edited Mar 25, 2019
  2. JanV Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    907
    Likes
    2,467
    Well one thing is that this later auction is not known to be a watch auction, thus probably not getting enough attention around it.

    Sounds like someone got a nice watch for a good price to me. I myself have missed this auction house totally, not been on my watch list.
     
    Edited Mar 26, 2019
    Dash1 likes this.
  3. OMEGuy Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    2,086
    Likes
    2,783
    One common thing I can see for both watches is, that they both have movements with a 17,76 mio. serial number (which I believe are service movements).

    The second one from today went too cheap IMO.

    What do you mean exactly?
     
  4. Patrik83 Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    315
    Likes
    270
    Other watches that have the same parts in close range of serial.
     
  5. OMEGuy Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    2,086
    Likes
    2,783
    Yes, there are other watches with identical parts and the same reference.

    Apart from the movement everything else looks genuine and matching.

    And while believing the movement has been swapped in the past, I still think the buyer made a good deal. The bezel alone might be worth more than a third of the auction result.
     
  6. Bbturbo Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    81
    Likes
    62
    Newbie question, pusher neck. Seems like the bottom has a larger diameter. Is that normal?
     
    bloomy likes this.
  7. OMEGuy Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    2,086
    Likes
    2,783
    Newbie answer: The pushers look correct. There's some dirt / wrist cheese, but otherwise they look ok.

    Also look at the length of the pushers. They have the correct dimension to span a circle around the crown.
     
  8. Bbturbo Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    81
    Likes
    62
    Thank you! Interesting detail about the circle around the crown.
     
  9. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    Why do you think that range of serials are replacements?
     
    Dash1, Davidt and BenBagbag like this.
  10. Cad290 Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    676
    Likes
    1,042
    toddle321 likes this.
  11. OMEGuy Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    2,086
    Likes
    2,783
    Thank you @oddboy for your question.

    I don't have a definite answer, but while I own some of these watches, my own database tells me that the early 2998's came with a 17,301.xxx/17,302.xxx serial number and my 20 years of observation tell me that the 17,76x.xxx movements were service movements. Back in the early 60's, they used to swap the movements instead of doing the work, I believe it's as easy as that.

    It is sad, but most likely true. In those days, they didn't give a damn on originality there in Bienne.
     
    Edited Mar 24, 2019
  12. BenBagbag Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    2,820
    Likes
    8,983
  13. gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed et alia Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    5,855
    Likes
    16,579
    @OMEGuy, in your 20 years of experience, Have you ever seen an Omega extract for a 2998 with a 1776xxxx movement number?
     
    Dash1 and oddboy like this.
  14. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    5,121
    Likes
    8,623
    I have. more than one. but that does not answer the question; service movements or not. should be mentioned in the excerpt..... kind regards. achim
     
  15. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Mar 24, 2019

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    Cheers, would love to hear more about the theory. It does contradict some of the foremost authorities on the matter which is what makes it intriguing.
     
  16. Patrik83 Mar 25, 2019

    Posts
    315
    Likes
    270
    Do you have any links to any of the other watches with 2998-1, Lollipop, Naiad crown? Would be interesting to inspect those.
     
  17. Patrik83 Mar 25, 2019

    Posts
    315
    Likes
    270
    What would be the value there for the 2915-1? Would love to learn more here. I understand that a proper 2915-1 is extremely valuable.. but in this case? 32 000USD, 28 000EUR (including fee)?
     
    Edited Mar 25, 2019
  18. OMEGuy Mar 25, 2019

    Posts
    2,086
    Likes
    2,783
  19. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Mar 25, 2019

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    in the OP pics, are all of those pics supposed to be of the same watch? look at the arrow on the regulator...
     
  20. OMEGuy Mar 25, 2019

    Posts
    2,086
    Likes
    2,783
    Cheers, it's not a theory, just my personal observation as stated above and I will appreciate if you can tell me I'm wrong.

    I've mainly seen CK 2998-1 with movement serial numbers in the 16,649,xxx, 17,301,xxx and 17,302,xxx range. I have seen watches with later movements as well, most of them being in the 17,761,xxx or 17,764,xxx range and these 17,76x,xxx watches appeared to have been serviced in the past.

    Looking at the production time table, 17,761,xxx movements are considered to be correct for CK 2998-2 and 3, not for the -1.