Hello All A bit of an issue here. Recently I sold my 1980's Speedmaster 145.022 on the forums. Original listing: http://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-145-022-1980s.13781/#post-157148 Today, I get an email from the buyer, a nice guy and forum member, with a photo of the watch. Today is the first day he's worn it and it fogged up on him. See the attached picture: He asked me if this has ever happened to me and it has not. I've owned the watch since September of last year and have worn it for most of the time after that (at the very least 3 times a week). From the quick searches and stuff I've seen, it seems to be an issue with the seals? Is it possible I never experienced this because the humidity here in Chicago never caused it to fog up like this? Could it have been damaged in shipping? Just looking for a little knowledge and guidance here. I'm emailing the buyer this thread and he can feel free to chime in with questions or concerns regarding the issue. I'd like to get this solved for him as I feel bad. Anyway, hope there is someone out there that has an idea as to why this sudden fogging has popped up. THANKS!
Could be any number of reasons, including pressure changes in a cargo flight during delivery (assuming it was not in a presurized hold) or imperfect reseal after removing the caseback. That's enough fogging to be concerned, IMO, and needs attention. Do you know when it was last serviced?
I do not. When I bought it they said that by looking at the movement it looked like it had been serviced in the last 5 years.
I have never opened the watch. But I suppose that could be the issue. I'm guessing a watchmaker should take a look.
My first thought is where did you send it? fogging is quite common in these older speedmasters, (because they often have not been serviced) and it is easy to do. Water can come in via the crown tube, the pushers and the case back often doesn't have the gasket fitted. And from what I read you cannot be sure there was one there. getting caught in tropical rains will do it, as the water runs down my bare arms, probably right in the watch. A night in the rice bowl, with the back and movement cover off sorts it, but not a great way to live.....I don't wear an unserviced one in the rain anymore! as to responsibility, my initial reaction is that it is the buyers liability not the seller. You sold a vintage watch, and it has been out of your environmental control. You disclosed the lack of service. While I am sure like all of us, you want to behave in the most correct way, I feel you are doing the right thing by helping with information. if the watch is serviced there will be no damage, and it needed a service when you sold it. unless a speedmaster I buy has a service receipt from within the last two years, I assume it needs to be treated with more care, and probably serviced.
I agree, it needed a service anyway and getting that done immediately will prevent any real damage. The moisture likely got in after it arrived there, and it's more likely to be dried up gaskets or seals than any kind of shipping damage. That still doesn't solve the ethical dilemma of the buyer getting a surprise when maybe he thought he'd be able to get another year or two out of it before a service. It may be cheaper for you and better for your feedback to offer to split the service with him, rather than take the watch back and offer a refund. But I don't think you are obligated to offer anything, since you have no idea if he went swimming with it on, or riding a bike in the rain while wearing it, etc.
Spacefruit and Larry Thanks for the thoughtful and quick replies. The buyer and I have spoken over email quite a bit and he's going to bring the watch in to a watch repair. We are going to take it from there. I trust we will be able to work this out. I highly doubt the buyer did anything but put the watch on! He's clearly an honest fellow and this is just one of those silly situations. It's strange that the fogging never happened to me, but happened to him. My theory was, since the watch was purchased here in Chicago on September 16th of last year, it hasn't seen the type of weather that might cause such an issue. Therefore, I would have never have seen it happen. Anyway, like I said, we are working it out! Thanks fellas.
I agree with Spacefruit. I've just had the same thing happen to me (though I did wear the watch in humid HK for about three weeks before the fogging started). In any event, if you buy a watch that has not been recently (ie within the last year or two) serviced, it is entirely expected that the gaskets and other components may not be up to scratch. In summary: the buyer took on the risk, and the buyer should bear the cost of restoring the watch to spec. This is why watches with evidence of recent service command a premium.
Thanks for the reply. To be clear though, the buyer NEVER asked me to pay for anything. I'll quote his email here (hope he doesn't mind): "I believe you, and to clarify I'm not going to hang it on you. I bought a used watch and knew what I was getting into. More looking for guidance, history etc...." This guy is totally on the level and has been classy all the way, which makes me all the more want to help him, whether it be finding an answer as to why this may be happening (purpose of this thread) or throwing a little cash his way to make the possible overhaul a little more tolerable. Thanks again for the all the suggestions and responses!
I think this sounds like a great transaction, with a classy buyer and seller - sometimes in a very honest deal, #$@ happens, and it's great when an honest buyer and seller can come together to work out a situation that works well for both. Cheers too you both.
I have a technical question here. . .so, in cases like this, where "humidity" seems to attack and fog a Speedmaster. . . [1] what's the best way to address it (in the short term - say, "emergency" level actions that stabilize or mitigate the issue, until some point in the reasonable future where you can get it in to a watchmaker (which may take a week or two if you need to ship it or if you're away from home)? [2] does this cause any immediate damage to the watch movement and dial, like true water damage from a breached seal due to submersion and flooding with liquid water would?
I will defer to those smarter than I to answer these questions. Spacefruit, I'm looking in your direction
emergency drying procedure with (uncooked!) rice. i use it rather more often than I care to admit on mobile phones. I live in a tropical rainfall area. my experience is that no permanent damage has happened to either my mobile phones, or the three speedmasters this has happened too. on the watches, two were sent fairly quickly for service, while another after six months has not been sent, and shows no internal damage at all. when I dry them, I leave them crystal down on a shallow bowl of rice, covered by a plate, in the safe. I remove the back, and the movement cover. Great care to not let any dust or obviously actual rice inside the movement. obviously I am talking about fresh water here. Salt water is another story, luckily one I have yet to experience. even I don't take a speedmaster near the sea. As a point of interest, my very, very beautiful wife took her serviced (one month) speedmaster in the shower. Absolutely oblivious, both her and the watch. i wouldnt recomend it .
Best thing is to open the caseback and get it done quickly then pull the movement and let it dry. More than likely the seal on the crown or pushers failed and he washed his hands or something. I've seen this before and usually the dial gets spotting if not dealt with right away. As the wrist warms up the moisture it fogs up the crystal
Hello everybody, Thank you fort the thoughts and comments above. I'm the other half of this puzzle and more of a reader/lurker than a poster. What caught me was that it happened off the bat and I was looking for ideas on sleuthing it other than the usual suspects. The exposure of this watch to water is nothing more than daily hand washing, i.e. no shower/pool submersion etc. The seller was kind enough to help me sort through this. After an overnight in rice I had the gasket changed yesterday and the jeweler said that it looked normal and was not pinched and that the movement looked ok on inspection. He did change the gasket and commented that the caseback was closed completely and the old gasket was not pinched in between. It's back on my wrist again and I am going to make it my daily wear for a fortnight or more and see how it goes. Regards, Bobby
Did they pressure test it after changing the gasket? From the description they gave you, if the case back gasket was in good shape and not pinched, that area is not likely the source of the leak. crown, followed by pushers, then case back, then crystal is the order of probable leak sources in my experience. In terms of drying it out, I tend to place the watch on my plate heater that is used for condensation testing...it warms the case without letting it get too hot as it's limited to 47 degrees C. the issue with rice is the chance that dust will get into the case. If you are taking the case back off anyway, I would gently warm the watch under a lamp...not hot, just warm. Cheers, Al
This is like the hall of game for Speedmaster knowledge. Thanks to all of yo. For you concern and thoughts!