I've been offered this Speedmaster 145.022-74 with killer patina, super fat case and a fabulous insert that appears quite gray (ghosted) at certain angles. However, I see that the dial is a C3 type with the longer "S" in "Speedmaster," and according to the "Moonwatch Only" book and some postings here on the forum, those dials are seen mostly on 145.022-76s and 145.022-78s.

So, my question is .... could this dial be correct on a 145.022-74? Now, it's a late version of the reference, with a 399229XX serial and an estimated July 1977 production. I assume that the later-style dials were probably used in the later batches of the 145.022-74, but I'd like confirmation, or any other opinions from all you fine Speedmaster lovers.

Also, is this serial number OK with a 145.022-74? I realize there can be a couple of years difference between the reference number (in this case '74) and the production year (1977), but if this case back is correct, it's certainly a very late 145.022-74, based on the serial number.

 

Hi swish77

It is more likely that this is a 145.022-76. The dial could be correct for this reference. Calling @Foo2rama. Have you seen the inside of the caseback? Does it state 74? Nice looking watch though.

Cheers

 

Yes, here's the case back. I've found a couple of other references online to Speedmasters with 3992XXXX serial numbers and the same style dial and 145.022-74 case backs. Still, there are certainly more 145.022-76s/78s with this type of dial.

 

Could you post those references?

 

Sure, here's one example, with the same style of dial and case back reference, and similar movement serial number.

 

The reason for the mismatch might be a caseback that has been replaced during a service, but this is just a wild guess. I hope some more experienced members chime in and give their 5 cents.

 

I'm not convinced it's a mismatch. My guess is that the later serial number 145.022-74s had the type C3 dial. The "Moonwatch Only" book says that type of dial started in 1977, so if the serial number matches that production time frame, I'm assuming it's correct. Still, just looking for other opinions.

 

With mismatch I meant the caseback and not the dial The dial might be correct for this serial number range. As far as I remember @Foo2rama investigated that this dial started in August 1977 on the 76 reference. MWO also mentions only C2 (beginning in 75) dials for the 145.022-74 reference. There might be also C1 dials on early 74 models... The C3 dial could also have been replaced during a service. It was used until 1990 according to MWO.

 

Dial is not correct prior to a sept 77 production 145.022-76. It’s a service dial if the caseback is correct. What’s the serial number?

Edit

Saw the serial. The case back is wrong. 39.992.2m is way late for a -74 caseback. Serial is correct I think for a -76 late production with that dial. I need to check my data.


EDIT - checked my data
My data shows that it is just before June of 77 measured against my tracking of serial numbers and extracts on this sub reference. My data highly suggests that it should have a c2 dial, but my data is not definitive. My data tends to show a hard change date in Sept but there is no way to be sure, until a few hundred are on the list.

 

My 74ST is serial 39m as well. But 39180xxx, so a earlier one and dial is a correct C2 one. Delivery was in Nov 76.

 

I share your opinion...

But to be sure, you would have to order an Extract.

And even if the EOA stated that this watch is a -76, I think it would be worth trying to find a matching caseback... The watch looks beautiful IMO.

BTW: What's the price for it?

 

At this point i should ask which dial should be correct for an extremely early -74?

 

Some say a C1 might be okay. Most should have a C2.

 

C2 is a dome dial where the "S" in Speedmaster does not drop to the bottem of the "p." The step dial with that logo is up for debate as to if it is or is not acceptable on a -74. The C3 is a dome with the "S" dropping to the bottom of the "p" and is seen in mid 1977 production and on starting with 145.022-76.

 

Thanks, please let me know what you find out. The "I Love My Speedmaster" site predicts a July 1977 production for this watch, based on the serial number. I'm more concerned about the correctness of the serial number and dial type, of course. Perhaps I could track down a correct 145.022-76 case back, assuming the rest of it checks out.

 

Recheck my re-edit... I already added the other info.


"My data shows that it is just before June of 77 measured against my tracking of serial numbers and extracts on this sub reference. My data highly suggests that it should have a c2 dial, but my data is not definitive. My data tends to show a hard change date in Sept but there is no way to be sure, until a few hundred are on the list."

 

So this would be a C2 right?

 

Yup. A 145.022-74 and 145.022-76 only dial.

Printed logo
Dome dial
Short hour markers
Wide T Swiss made T
Drop tail r
Medium S that doesn’t drop to the bottom of the p
Tritium

 

So since i'm looking for a better dial i must keep an eye to a matching C2.

 

Many thanks. So, it sounds as if the -74 case back is definitely wrong for the serial number, but the question remains whether this watch would originally have had a C2 or C3 dial. Sounds as if it's right on the edge.