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Speedmaster 145.012, Cal. 321. Any Inputs on the condition of the watch?

  1. raltobelli

    raltobelli Jun 11, 2019

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    Hi guys

    Maybe a good place to ask regarding a cal. 321 Speedmaster which I'm looking to buy.

    What do you think about the watch? Anything weird? It's a 145.012, Cal. 361 from 1968. I want to avoid making a mistake, as it will be my first Speedmaster I'm not an expert and thankful for any Inputs.

    According to the seller the watch is all original except that the Bezel was replaced and the caseback was replaced.
    The watch is in working condition, but needs a service as the reset of the 12h Display is not always working. As well the back shows slight traces of corrosion.

    As I'm not in a hurry and don't want to overpay; What do you think would be an appropriate Price range for such a watch in that condition?
    As well, what does a proper Service at a Omega Boutique costs (as I will have to include this Costs as well in my decision making).

    Still quite new to the Forum, appreciate the help ;)! Thx.
    Speedmaster_1.png Speedmaster_2.png Speedmaster_3.png Speedmaster_4.png Speedmaster_5.png
     
  2. Cal_321

    Cal_321 Jun 13, 2019

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    I would keep my hands off! Replacement caseback is a nogo for me. Lume is washed off, crown not correct and so on. Not a watch which will find a lot of friends..
     
  3. Tri-national-man

    Tri-national-man Jun 13, 2019

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    Bezel is modern service one too..Check out my avatar.. This watch should have “dot over 90”
     
  4. Caliber561

    Caliber561 Jun 13, 2019

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    Its only value is in its parts, to be honest. Unless you're intentionally looking for a project watch, you should move on.
     
  5. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jun 13, 2019

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    You need to become a expert to play vintage speedmasters ;)

    You don’t want to overpay so give us the price. ;)
     
    321Only likes this.
  6. mr_yossarian

    mr_yossarian Jun 13, 2019

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    All said. This is a terrible example of a pretty much put together watch I'd say. According to the Extract delivered to Portugal in/around 1968, it should bear a customs hallmark on the upper left lug..but it doesn't.
     
  7. Spacefruit

    Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Jun 13, 2019

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    This is a terrible watch.

    It has no endearing qualities, apart perhaps from the fact it has an extract.

    Well done for asking here, you are saving yourself a headache. This is a watch that if you bought it, would simply become more and more unattractive as you owned it, as it’s shortcomings become more and more obvious to you.

    As with everything, it’s down to price as well - but even if this was cheap, it would still be unattractive - it’s got too many replacement parts, and those that remain so ugly, that if it is priced anything above the price of a movement the it’s going to disappoint.

    The difference between an experienced buyer and a novice, is that the experienced buyer sees in a few seconds what the novice might take several weeks or months to notice, then investigate, then realise just how he has been fooled.

    It is not rocket science, but comparables really help. Find a really nice watch or one where the colours of the dial and lume attract you. Then see if it is admired by the wider community (when you are learning - consensus can help you discover if it’s real or not).

    For example there is a recent sale on eBay of an attractive 145.012 with a brown dial. Ask yourself, do you like it? Do you like the colours? Don’t worry if you don’t - not everyone does, and that’s part of the fun. Learn what you like, and as long as the dial is genuine, and you are aware of any work done, you should be ok. In the case of the op watch the lume has been removed and no one likes that.

    Also the op watch has a replacement bezel - which jars my eyes, and a replacement back - we have to wonder why? Then we have to wonder if the back has been replaced, how much of the movement is original, indeed is the mid case original? If not, then when you own it small little niggling doubts as to the general integrity and honesty of the watch might creep into your mind and ruin the enjoyment of ownership.

    Again, this doesn’t hold so true if the watch is bought knowing all these things and for a price that truly reflects the state of the watch.

    Look at the forums, where people show the watch they just bought or, like you have, asked about a watch on offer.

    Allow yourself to choose what you like, then verify the integrity of the parts.

    A short cut is to buy a watch and wear it. You will then get to know it intimately and it seems to jumpstart knowledge base in those who want to get a good one, but who know little. To that end, look for a trusted seller and buy something that grabs you by the balls and says “buy me!” - spending what you can afford to be without for a while, no more.
     
    Taybharr, JanV, sxl2004 and 11 others like this.
  8. Dgercp

    Dgercp Jun 13, 2019

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    Here is an example of a 145.012 a bit more acceptable.
     
    732DC4AB-5F05-45FA-BFA1-6A88CFECD5CC.jpg
    Taybharr and josephgsy like this.
  9. josephgsy

    josephgsy Jun 13, 2019

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    My ghost says hi
    20EAA90A-79FE-4CCF-913A-112649F5574D.jpeg
     
  10. jpjsavage

    jpjsavage Jun 13, 2019

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    What a great post and brilliant advice. In a nutshell, steer well clear of this one!
     
  11. Maitreyoda007

    Maitreyoda007 Jun 13, 2019

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    I agree with what was said, find a good one, but hurry!
     
    AE12A63A-CFC8-4754-9BE9-7DEBA9B37C79.jpeg
  12. AdamS

    AdamS Jun 13, 2019

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    Here is a photo of the Portugal "hallmark" on my 145.012 (top left lug) that you should see on this one as well, leads me to believe the mid case is probably a replacement as well.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. JohnSteed

    JohnSteed Jun 14, 2019

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    Where’s the ‘68 from? Serial number? What is the case back reference (inside)? Serial # 25– - but thought ‘68 is 26 serial, MAYBE 27...

    Is 25 considered ‘68 ??

    Dial really lacking. I mean, no patina (some ‘nice’ degradation) and not a nice yellowish hue. Really lacking.

    Good to check here. Buy the Moonwatch Book. Tons helpful. And of course, browse these pages patiently ... you’ll be rewarded !!
     
    Ian_km likes this.
  14. bgrisso

    bgrisso Jun 14, 2019

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    here's another 145-012 for comparison, not perfect, but quite nice. The dial lume, DON, etc are in great condition.
     
    P1010085.JPG
  15. rcs914

    rcs914 Jun 14, 2019

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    I'd buy this if I found it in a pawnshop for $2K. At $3K I'd realize it was technically worth it for the parts, but still would pass. I'm going to guess that the seller is asking around $6K and at that price it is such a hard "NOPE" its not even funny. Walk away.
     
  16. Dan S

    Dan S Jun 14, 2019

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    Even the one currently on eBay is much nicer. So-so bezel with some wear to the case and replacement crown, but the dial and hands are very attractive.
     
    Edited Jun 14, 2019
  17. Dan S

    Dan S Jun 14, 2019

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    Taybharr likes this.
  18. Spacefruit

    Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Jun 15, 2019

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    Actually I think this sold well. Look at the dial, 5 to 7 oclock looks "dry", the lume on some markers does not match others, so all in all I would not have expected this to go much higher. The bezel is not very attractive, without actually being poor.

    I do not think this sale indicates any softening of the market.
     
    Taybharr likes this.