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Since when did damage become “patina”

JwRosenthal
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So I understand that with time comes signs of age, my graying hair and crows feet speak to that. But at what point did the watch community embrace damage as authenticity and credibility?
I have seen listings and posts, both on the forums and on eBay where terms like “starry night”, “ghost bezel” “spider finish” “butterscotch lume”, “chocolatey tropical” and “stunning patina” are used to describe water/moisture damage, sun fading, glossy finish crazing (which was an admited process failure by Rolex btw), and every other superlative to describe what we used to think of as flaws and damage that would decrease the value of a watch, not enhance it!!

This is akin to how we used to joke about real estate listings with terms like “charming” (small), “city views” (brick wall and dumpsters), “water feature” (flooding basement) “rustic charm” (decrepit).
I have even read of people intentionally patinating their vintage watches to make them more distressed looking-that is just insane!
Am I in the minority that sees these “features” as flaws?
 
Deafboy
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I'm with you. I try to find watches that are in their best condition.
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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uuhhh ohhh that's the question nobody should ask 😁

Just as example no daylight since bought from first owner 1995 than sat in safe until last September when i bought it. And that’s what i call patina and i love it.
CAC60735-E6D7-4138-BDEC-0C4F9D54AF66.jpeg
 
Mouse_at_Large
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If you are selling, it's "patina", if you are buying, it's damage 😗

Personally speaking I really don't get "beautiful", "attractive", "pleasant" or any other subjective opinion when applied to "patina". Give me decent pictures and I'll decide for myself according to my personal aesthetic values. Also related to "patina", don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining, sometimes fubar is just fubar 😒
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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Mouse_at_Large Mouse_at_Large
If you are selling, it's "patina", if you are buying, it's damage 😗

Personally speaking I really don't get "beautiful", "attractive", "pleasant" or any other subjective opinion when applied to "patina". Give me decent pictures and I'll decide for myself according to my personal aesthetic values. Also related to "patina", don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining, sometimes fubar is just fubar 😒

i understand what OP is saying as i feel the same .... and even the mythbuster proved that one can polish shit. Some sellers throwing around with superlatives for their crap watches but i think that only newbies or minion will fall for those traps
 
JwRosenthal
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This will date me, but when I started seeing trashed Levi’s selling in “boutique” stores for hundreds of dollars- beyond the point at which they would go from yard pants to trash for me, I knew we had gone nuts.
I have theorized that the current generation (not branding a whole generation- just generalizing guys for sake of arguement) are looking for some form of authenticity in a very inauthentic world. We live in a time where “roughing it” means going without WiFi and having to use data. A well worn watch speaks to a hard life lived... sure on someone who has worn it for 50 years and lived the life of the most interesting man in the world...not on a hipster working at Starbucks.
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
This will date me, but when I started seeing trashed Levi’s selling in “boutique” stores for hundreds of dollars- beyond the point at which they would go from yard pants to trash for me, I knew we had gone nuts.
I have theorized that the current generation (not branding a whole generation- just generalizing guys for sake of arguement) are looking for some form of authenticity in a very inauthentic world. We live in a time where “roughing it” means going without WiFi and having to use data. A well worn watch speaks to a hard life lived... sure on someone who has worn it for 50 years and lived the life of the most interesting man in the world...not on a hipster working at Starbucks.
Ahh you mean this kind of ... whatever (he/she/it) is

DCDDDA89-CD5D-4494-B0F5-9E9FDEAECAD8.jpeg
 
Gav1967
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It is a very subjective area but to me there is a difference between patina and damage although I am not sure I can explain it adequately but here goes.
Patina to me is akin to growing old gracefully, natural degradation of lume and dial etc for me is similar to getting grey hair and I think add to the beauty and show authenticity of a life lived.

Damage for me is misuse or unnatural degradation. Water damage, tobacco, polishing etc. The equivalent to me of a face lift, boob job or broken nose

Accept that this is difficult to define and not sure where the line between the two is but just my own thoughts
 
kingsrider
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This thread is perfect timing as I just came across this on Ebay. Described as "stunning pumpkin dial". So how was the tinting of the lume done? Tea, Coffee?
s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-V...547215?hash=item287bf8130f:g:kD8AAOSwzsVcupeL

Same seller has this listed. Enhanced lume?. That pumpkin color looks familiar.
s-l1600.jpg
Edited:
 
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septentrio
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... since people have realized that tremendous beauty can be found in imperfection...
 
BatDad
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kingsrider kingsrider
This thread is perfect timing as I just came across this on Ebay. Described as "stunning pumpkin dial". So how was the tinting of the lume done? Tea, Coffee?
Is a relume a possibility? The ends of the plots seem consistently ‘thinner’ and white to my eyes.
The black light shot seems convincing though.

Edit- this looks to be @ndgal s watch. I’d trust it’s original...

https://omegaforums.net/threads/199...-022-with-a-kiiler-pumpkin-patina-dial.93584/
Edited:
 
JwRosenthal
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Pumpkin.....hmmm...he must playing with the 128 Crayola box, i only have the 16
 
JwRosenthal
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Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate a little “patina”...all of my vintage sport watches have varying shades of discolored lume- all pretty consistent and ranging from yellow to orange to almost black, which is consistent with the aging of the materials. But I wouldn’t charge more for it or say it adds to its value, let alone give it a fancy name.
I personally would take a stunning redial over a sun bleached, spider cracked, water damaged dial any day of the week- and at a fraction of the price these days!
 
gatorcpa
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I personally would take a stunning redial...
I think most people would.

Good luck finding one. Especially with an Omega.
gatorcpa
 
JwRosenthal
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As an example- this was from an auction that ended last night. I was highly tempted to bid and it went for a great price for what it is, but the water damage around 6 in the dial kept me from jumping on it. I really was tempted but realized that that “patina” was just too much damage for me to deal with
7F251F16-0C2A-4DD6-85DE-5960424341FF.png 6D34EC9D-11D9-4222-A611-53DCA82F6202.png


In contrast, this is clearly a redial, the seller states it and isn’t trying to hide that at all, but I think it’s a stellar job and I would much rather take this over the compromised dial. I know many that would clobber me for such an assertion, but the “patina” on the first one would drive me nuts. I could happily wear this one knowing it’s a redial but with a stunning look dial even if the micro-details may be off.
414E4989-AF76-4B9F-B559-36405972D20C.png 77225A26-0BB9-497F-871C-E375D8F3E499.jpeg
 
warrydog
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You’ll note watch and owner match fairly well

Watch: overpolished, damaged dial, bad hands.

Owner: spidered skin, age spots, dried out, waffle pattern with blemishes, and arthritic hands
5E3698ED-CDE8-4A6A-B9FE-AA9186AC6CB5.jpeg
 
JwRosenthal
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warrydog warrydog
You’ll note watch and owner match fairly well

Watch: overpolished, damaged dial, bad hands.

Owner: spidered skin, age spots, dried out, waffle pattern with blemishes, and arthritic hands
5E3698ED-CDE8-4A6A-B9FE-AA9186AC6CB5.jpeg
Bravo!!!
And your watch shows the life lived by a very interesting man! On you it’s a testiment-on a hipster it’s sad
 
athom
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Since people try to make money with sh*t...more or less since time immemorial unfortunately...
 
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