Since when did damage become “patina”

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...but I think it’s a stellar job and I would much rather take this over the compromised dial.
I don’t and I wouldn’t.

The fonts are incorrect and Omegas of that era did not have glossy black dials. Looks like the Mona Lisa with a mustache drawn on.

But that’s just my opinion.
gatorcpa

PS - Hands are not Omega and the crown is incorrect as well.
 
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I don’t and I wouldn’t.

The fonts are incorrect and Omegas of that era did not have glossy black dials. Looks like the Mona Lisa with a mustache drawn on.

But that’s just my opinion.
gatorcpa

PS - Hands are not Omega and the crown is incorrect as well.
Yeah, now that I look at it, it’s not right-but I still think it’s perty
 
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This thread is perfect timing as I just came across this on Ebay. Described as "stunning pumpkin dial". So how was the tinting of the lume done? Tea, Coffee?
s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-V...547215?hash=item287bf8130f:g:kD8AAOSwzsVcupeL

Same seller has this listed. Enhanced lume?. That pumpkin color looks familiar.
s-l1600.jpg

Soaked in a pumpkin spice latte, then dried on a tanning bed, clearly😗
 
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Personally speaking I really don't get "beautiful", "attractive", "pleasant" or any other subjective opinion when applied to "patina". Give me decent pictures and I'll decide for myself according to my personal aesthetic values. Also related to "patina", don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining, sometimes fubar is just fubar 😒

So you are saying, you "really don't get" what marketing/advertising 101 is...
 
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So you are saying, you "really don't get" what marketing/advertising 101 is...

Oh, I get it, and I'll give it as much credence as "up to 100% flake free" in anti-dandruff shampoo adverts 😜
 
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... since people have realized that tremendous beauty can be found in imperfection...
Very true mate! I'm a big fan of 'wobbly, wrinkly, wooly, women'.🥰 They always have an interesting story to tell!......Same with old guitars and vintage watches.
 
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Damage became patina around the same time somebody called a watch that some fool left the sticker on the back "New Old Stock".

Very true mate! I'm a big fan of 'wobbly, wrinkly, wooly, women'.🥰 They always have an interesting story to tell!

Okay, that'll leave the Victoria's Secret models for me. I'll make the wrinkles and stories with them.
 
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I sometimes wonder about the damage vs patina thing. Rolex fans seem to go wild over certain "patina". This speedsonic has a dial that has been wrecked by moisture. It may look cool, but will slowly crumble away and cause problems in the watch. I prefer a perfect dial any day and understand that sometimes you buy a project watch in hopes of scoring a new dial. If the "patina" is evenly applied and doesn't look horrible, then I think it is appealing. I dislike the constant marketing hype, but it must be working or people wouldn't keep buying ugly and destroyed watches.
 
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I sometimes wonder about the damage vs patina thing. Rolex fans seem to go wild over certain "patina". This speedsonic has a dial that has been wrecked by moisture. It may look cool, but will slowly crumble away and cause problems in the watch. I prefer a perfect dial any day and understand that sometimes you buy a project watch in hopes of scoring a new dial. If the "patina" is evenly applied and doesn't look horrible, then I think it is appealing. I dislike the constant marketing hype, but it must be working or people wouldn't keep buying ugly and destroyed watches.
Oh yeah-paint spalling like that is like rust on a car-it’s cancer and will only get worse. That’s a pity and the person selling it probably know they are getting rid of their problem, not bestowing a gem of authenticity and adventurous living upon the Uber-hip masses
 
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So I understand that with time comes signs of age, my graying hair and crows feet speak to that. But at what point did the watch community embrace damage as authenticity and credibility?
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Am I in the minority that sees these “features” as flaws?
There are veteran collectors who vehemently disagree with me (ie: @Tony C. ) but I think of “true” Patina as being only discoloration that comes from natural aging.

In my view of “true” patina, I think it does often make vintage watches look better and appropriately brings a premium.

All forms of “damage” you describe may in some rare cases make for a nice look, but usually it takes away from the beauty of a vintage watch.

 
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to a certain extent, it is considered a patina resulting to an appearance of being damage, ostensibly due to imperfection, in this case mixture of the tint on the (bronze) dial. there is an almost equal distribution of patina on each index and both subregisters.


 
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There are veteran collectors who vehemently disagree with me (ie: @Tony C. ) but I think of “true” Patina as being only discoloration that comes from natural aging.

The reason that I disagree is because your definition is too narrow. Part of the patina found on leather, to use just one example, are signs of wear. On a bicycle seat that may take the form of rub marks, or on a baseball glove, fine wrinkles. On metals, both color and texture are considered patina, including rust. Color change is just one form of patina.

So, when the chemical lacquers applied to watch dials form very fine cracks over time, or a chrome case degrades, it is every bit as "true" a form of patina as the change of colors that typically occur from such processes.

I do agree that color changes are more likely to be attractive forms of patina than oxidation on metal, but they are both forms of patina.
Edited:
 
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The reason that I disagree is because your definition is too narrow. Part of the patina found on leather, to use just one example, are signs of wear. On a bicycle seat that may take the form of rub marks, or on a baseball glove, fine wrinkles. On metals, both color and texture are considered patina, including rust. Color change is just one form of patina.

So, when the chemical lacquers applied to watch dials form very fine cracks over time, it is every bit as "true" a form of patina as the change of colors that typically occur from such processes.
This I agree with. The natural aging of materials, be it due to natural oxidation, or wear consistent with regular use (like the wear to a bronze railing from hands touching it for millenia) I dont see as the issue though. Even to use one of my original examples of the spider cracking on gloss Rolex dials can be considered acceptable to a collector of 80’s Rolex’s as they were a flawed process and replaced for free by the manufacturer, hence the extant ones are indeed rarer than service dials.
Where I have the problem is when abuse or neglect become features rather than flaws.

Of course sellers will try to spin a flaw in order to charm the buyer with a sense of individuality( yes, this condo is unlike any of the other 45 units in this crappy building- it’s the only one with a fire escape) or nostalgia (looks like my grandpappy used that watch to chop wood- not wear it while chopping wood-to actually chop wood with)- as said earlier it’s part of salesmanship and as old a practice as time itself.

I begin to feel like the emperor has no clothes when I see thread after thread on various forums of people fawning over watches that have clearly been damaged or abused and huge price tags on beaters that never would have made it into a showcase or auction 15 years ago and would have been considered parters.

Not every watch is a snowflake, sometimes they are just tired and belong in the parts bin.
 
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As an example- this was from an auction that ended last night. I was highly tempted to bid and it went for a great price for what it is, but the water damage around 6 in the dial kept me from jumping on it. I really was tempted but realized that that “patina” was just too much damage for me to deal with


In contrast, this is clearly a redial, the seller states it and isn’t trying to hide that at all, but I think it’s a stellar job and I would much rather take this over the compromised dial. I know many that would clobber me for such an assertion, but the “patina” on the first one would drive me nuts. I could happily wear this one knowing it’s a redial but with a stunning look dial even if the micro-details may be off.

You and I have very different taste in watches. I don't love that first watch, but I would take it for the right price. I wouldn't touch that redial, it's a hideous, glossy, fake, overpolished piece of crap.

Pristine pieces are great, but I've also been enjoying this thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/wat...t-love-all-the-same.93553/page-2#post-1214252
Edited:
 
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Pictures, this thread needs pictures...

Here one rare occasion where damage has created something beautiful, just that tad of moisture in the dial to create a chemical reaction to start this dial degradation, but then stop or slow down in the perfect moment.
 
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One of my dial is ruined , out , dead , completely passed out ... but this dial is the only one I ever send like this ... making it quite unique to my eyes ( and certalinly only mine), that is why I love it so much 😀
 
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I love the patina of my wallet that has formed from 3-4 years of pocket friction. You can see difference, where a card has protected the leather from abrasion. I love the look of the wallet, but I would not buy a previously used wallet or a wallet with faux patina...



The fun is earning the patina yourself, wherein lies the spike in price for tritium dial watches. Modern watches, like those with superluminova, do not age the same way as their predecessors. Buying vintage is the only option, if you don't want to buy fake tritium dial watches.

I wonder if omega would produce a modern speedmaster today with tritium... Would people have the patience to enjoy the watch and wait, knowing the lume would eventually age into a yellow color, instead of paying for vintage.🙄
 
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So for the sake of fun, here is an example of the neutral way of describing a watch versus the new and improved - Creative Superlative method:

This is one of mine-and yes, there is “patina”-

Neutral:
1969 Omega Constellation. It retains its original factory brushed finish, dial shows minor spotting, recently serviced and keeping time to COCS running +2/sec day.

The CS method:
Ultra rare Age of Aquarius Omega Constellation. The finish has never been touched, ever- unlike any other watch on earth this has its virgin finish. Bezel is 100% solid gold and and gleams like a halo of angels around the pristine bomb-proof ultra reinforced crystal.
The dial features the rare Orion’s Belt stippled pattern patina, and is among the rarest patina patterns you will find- one of a kind on the planet.
This watch was serviced by one of the few watchmakers on earth that know how to properly service omega’s as they are more complicated than any other watch. The watch keeps absolutely perfect time and has been synch’d to the atomic clock at the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. This Constellation is now the time keeping device by which the US Governent sets the standard of time.
 
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You and I have very different taste in watches. I don't love that first watch, but I would take it for the right price. I wouldn't touch that redial, it's a hideous, glossy, fake, overpolished piece of crap.

Pristine pieces are great, but I've also been enjoying this thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/wat...t-love-all-the-same.93553/page-2#post-1214252
Dan, you have made me see the light- and i’m Not being sarcastic. I have been on the bumper/ Calender hunt for a bit and have become frustrated by lack of “un-damaged” ones out there and have started to lower my standards to redials...and my standards apparently have gotten fairly loose. I guess it’s like starving in an oasis but all the fruit is poisoned.
You have reminded me to just be patient, save my pennies and be ready to pounce when a real one in great shape pops up.