I have been looking for while and am considering this as my first Speedmaster. Any thoughts before I pull the trigger? Thanks to OF, such a great resource. Hopefully I can reciprocate someday.
http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=67183

 

Aside from all the research about the parts, correctness, etc, you also need to step back and ask yourself, is this an attractive watch, and to me, the answer is no. That is a personal decision of course.

 

Well the price is lower than some.

Anyone see this dial sold for a shade under $3000?

http://speedmaster101.com/blog/145-012-dial-sold-for-2974/

Makes you wonder

 

Indeed lower than the current market prices but it only comes with a leather strap instead of a steel 1039/516 bracelet...
About the dial with slightly dirty-ish lume: de gustibus non disputandum est

 

For me a 145.012 should have another chrono hand to look attractive.

... not necessarily orange, no I didn't mean that

 

So is it a $9500 watch with that Ebay dial? Not yet....

 

My first impressions were that I really liked the look of the watch. Also to be honest I know I will probably never wear it with a steel bracelet. What I am getting from the comments is that it is a safe purchase with no glaring issues. Also it is a watch I wouldn't ever intend selling. Maybe one day (in a long time) one of my daughters would like it. It is probably not fair to put to much pressure on a watch. Though it should go without saying that we buy watches for more than telling time!

 

If you like it, and you're comfortable with the later chrono hand based on your research of 145.012 models, then I don't think it's a terrible starting price to make an offer on.

 

On second look, this is quite a fair and attractive speedmaster. I am surprised at the lack of enthusiasm. My comment about the dial was a to underline that the watch is quite fairly priced.

Its not fine, but its not a fine price.

Once we start wishing what was on this watch the list will go on and the watch will be $12000.

The bezel is a meteor, but correct.

The dial is, on closer examination, very interesting. I cannot quite see if there is damage on the right hand side, near the step, and near the 5 o'clock marker. However I am willing to bet this watch shows very well in natural light, with a very slight hint of brown (without being a brown dial - just off black).

The plots are not my favorite colour, but they are not washed either.

The chrono hand is correct and any discussion about it is frankly distracting, I meant we dont have a choice of a watch with and a watch without.

The movement appears clean. There is one chewed screw, but that's holding the movement. The actual movement screws seem clean. Compared to some of the movements in watches recently offered this is positively clinical.

Its all very well picking apart a watch - it should be picked apart. However the real skill is making the judgement is it worth buying? And to do that I compare with all the available ones, and also ask just what do I want it for? Does it suit everyday wear?

I think this is a great watch to buy. It seems correct, complete, and serviced, with an attractive vintage patina.

The cheapest 145012 on ebay is $7500 and needs a fair bit of TLC

 

Hi Spacefruit, and OF, thank you so much for your words of wisdom. I hope someday to be able to reciprocate. In what way I do not know.

 

Post pics when it arrives!

 

I've been following this seller's auctions the past weeks.

He sold a:

DO90: €3501
Mid case: €665
An incomplete 321: €2217
Dial: €2800
Pushers: €110

That totals €9293 (I guess the caseback, the hands and crown are yet to follow), for a watch that if put together few would fork €10.000 out for.

Seemingly disassembling your pre-moon is more profitable than putting it up for sale as is.

 

I do not have the knowledge to provide an answer based on the provenance and condition of the watch, but irrespective the first question I would ask you is about the context of your purchase. Do you just want one nice vintage Speedmaster to wear, either alone or part of a broader modern collection, or are you wanting this as the first piece of a serious vintage collection you are starting?

 

Several individuals started doing so already months ago. A shame for us, collectors

 

Hi

Or....(complete) 321 Speedmaster prices need a revision....

Something is wrong when Mr Market thinks a speedmaster broken for parts is worth more than a (correct) complete example IMHO.

Best - Neil

 

When DON is worth more than either dial and movement, something is wrong right???

 

Just a "brief" comment here..

Some questions that probably need to be asked are: who is the buyer, who payed that amount? Is it a dealer or someone private who desperately needs it for his watch, not for profit from a prepared watch..or both in one auction, driving the price insanly high? And how could this be anticipated in a market where the availability of high quality 50 years+ parts is clearly limited.

If I need to melt it down to a simple formula, it's collectors vs. professional dealers, explicitly taking out the fair dealers who seek to sell honest pieces for adequate prices, I hope you get my point, could explain this better in German.

I bought this dial below in December '16, I wouldn't rate it much weaker than the 3k $ one, I payed 1100$, probably would have gone up to 1700 because ..I was in need. But a tripling within 3 months? Who needs that, who is willing to afford this evolution in the short and mid term?




The only thing I see that I can do as an individual is not to pay any price, easy said as long as I am not in need, I know, but worth the try. And the more people do, the less we'll see this happen is my assumption.

This market is unregulated as can be. I do see the ethic implications and agree, the whole should be more worth than the sum of the parts.
I believe that this forum is an excellent place, for many reasons. And that members here - collectors AND dealers, some with an unrivaled high reputation in the yes, Speedmasterworld - can have a positive impact on the Speedmaster market, only by sharing knowledge, having - again ethical or moral - standards of a higher degree that will be helping people to tell good from bad, thus steering a bit a fair market value. Don't tell me "..in an ideal world" as I really believe in the strenght of published knowledge and smart individuals .

Prices will continously go up, for parts, for whole Speedies, that's for sure, but I/we might be able to influence to what degree in what timeframe, even if just a bit of balancing is achived.

Sorry for the hijacking.
Ralf

 

Well, this thread is well off track now, so no harm in going on. These "parts" aren't being sought out for there own sake and will make their way into other watches, presumably to "correct" problems perceived by their owners. If this is to replace a part that is completely destroyed or unserviceable, then perhaps this is justified, but if is just to gather as many newish looking parts together to make a vintage watch look as much like it was just bought yesterday, then I'm afraid the vintage watch collecting community has a problem, and that is most owners don't understand the difference between conservation, preservation, restoration and renovation.

 

Do you think this is some new phenomenon? It's not like the current market for Speedmasters has invented the swapping of parts. if you use actual original correct parts, is it really not "correct"? are we chasing ghosts at this point?

 

That's a bit like breaking down the value to the material used. Would you like a actual original dashboard in a porsche 356? And if so, would you pay as much as for the acrual original old dashboard that came with the car in '63? I get your point, but vintage..well, goes a bit deeper, probably easiest to understand for people with a certain melancholy ?