I'm watching an item on Ebay. Every time a new bid comes in, there are two people that up the amount.

Looking at their profiles, both have over 40% of their bids with that seller. I suspect they're both shills.

Has anyone let sellers know that you suspect shills? Or do you just put in your best price and see what happens?

 

I'd figure that they are using the shills to essentially run a reserve by bidding the item up to their desired sale price, and if it doesn't make it they can cancel the transaction and relist. All you can really do is bid with your best in the last few seconds and see what happens. If the seller has a higher price than your bid in mind, then they may have found another way to not complete the transaction.
Of course, the dubious actions of using shills could be an indicator to just walk from that seller as well. Depends on how bad you want the item!

 

Agreed, I wouldn't buy a watch from a dishonest seller, who knows what else they will be dishonest about?

 

I will not bid on anything sold by a seller who I suspect of shilling. Period.

 

i would ask myself, what other ethical things is the selling skipping out on?

 

If the seller uses shilling to reach a desired price, why doesn't he simply have a reserved price listing or simply start bidding at the level?

 

There are many, myself included, that have noticed that the "reserves" and "bid starting at" types are usually more than the watch is worth to start with and avoid such auctions. By using shill bidding a seller can still start at $1 and say no reserve, but still achieve the minimum they wanted, sometimes. At least that's my view.

 

eBay is charging extra for a reserve or start price (at least they did some while back when I considered selling some stuff there).

 

Funny that this thread was started, as I almost started the same thread yesterday.

I had been watching my grail on ebay, and the bidding was down to me and another bidder with ZERO feedback, who was only bidding on this auction and one other. Surprisingly the bidder bowed out just below the number the seller had mentioned to me in a phone call as to what his BIN option outside of ebay would have been.

I ended up getting the watch for $100 less than I was willing to pay.

Had that ZERO feedback seller not been in the game, the price of the watch would have been $1k less...makes you wonder.

Was it a shill? Who knows, but it looks like one to me, but I do know that other people would have potential bid it up to just below what I paid since it was not a "hidden auction" and was listed correctly.

 

Personally I'd walk away from an auction that looked like it involved shills.

But yeah, sometimes if you want the item badly, then snipe using an automated sniper like Gixen.

 

A good strategy against shilling is place a bid in the last few seconds of an auction. This can be done manually or through a sniper service.

I personally never shilled items I've sold on ebay (and I've sold plenty). The seller should be a bit more transparent by listing the item with an opening bid he is willing to sell the item.

 

Agree on that strategy, though it really only works if the shill account hasn't initially placed a bid as a reserve--not a reactionary effort. Anyone who wants to duplicate the effect of a reserve will just place a bid early on and see what happens. It's not hard to cancel transactions that have been won.

Anytime I bid on a listing, it's within the last 5 seconds. There are too many who will set a bid amount, and only increase if someone else bids. It's idiotic really--why should someone else's bid affect your bid amount?? I've seen it happen numerous times in the last 24 hours of bidding though, enough to realize that competition DOES convince people to pay more than they normally would.

 

That's a big what-if, and you certainly ended up paying more than you would have. But $1000 more? Highly unlikely. As you said, there were others prepared to snipe in the last few seconds, and your bids simply blocked them from entering their lesser amounts.

In the end, you cannot force a seller to sell at a price far below what they'll accept, whether it's policy or not. I've had sellers back out before, and all you can do is leave negative feedback and affect seller ratings.

 

The 10% they charge is highway robbery. It's paypal (3% fee) that provides the real purchase protections. I cannot blame people for trying to circumvent ebay in some cases, especially when the seller may already have the item listed elsewhere.

 

Considering the service they offer, it does kind of feel like it. You're comparing ebay to a B&M retailer which in most cases will physically own the goods they sell. Ebay acts like a giant online bulletin board, and they simply take a massive cut of every sale even though they NEVER have possession or ownership of the goods changing hands. Where is their risk? Their profit is only limited by the number of users and transactions they generate. Yes, you're paying for exposure and some limited protections--10% is still an insane amount.

 

To you, it may be steep, but Robbery? No one is forcing you to give them your money.

 

Figure of speach only--not meant literally. I sell on ebay quite frequently, and they take their pound of flesh from me. I don't like it, but I realize that it's to my benefit when compared to the alternatives. That said, I simply do not sympathize when people cry foul at those who try to circumvent ebay altogether. It certainly isn't illegal.