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  1. novina Jul 23, 2015

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    So, I took my 1960 seamaster to an Omega certified watchmaker. Asked hime to removed the movement so I could see it and the markings inside. He asked why and what I was going to do with the information. Well because I wish to know. Next I started to talk about what the watch needs. Well you need a new cystal and look the dial is water damaged. That's the crown, it wil need to be replaced. And of course he knew when it was last serviced, but I saw no markings on the caseback. What I did see was a 55 year old watch that the movement was mirror bright, a acrylic crystal that could be buffed out and a crown that is original to the watch.

    So would you still be confident in this watchmaker? I will bave an estimate tommorow late afternoon. Wondering if there are better watch makers in Rhode Island that are honest and care about a vintage watch as much as I do.

    What are your thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Rob
     
    Edited Jul 23, 2015
  2. wsfarrell Jul 23, 2015

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    Sounds like he has a boat payment coming due.
     
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  3. TNTwatch Jul 23, 2015

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    Pictures?
     
  4. novina Jul 23, 2015

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  5. emilio Jul 24, 2015

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    Try to find an independent watchmaker. Although sourcing omega parts might be harder I like the way my watchmaker works..
     
  6. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Jul 24, 2015

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    Boat payment? Small chips! trip to his dentist?
     
  7. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Jul 24, 2015

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    It's pretty common practice to replay crystal, crown, pushers (on chronos) at service, especially at an Omega certified shop as he's probably following Omega's directions. A good watch maker will probably recommend all of those out of the gate. A good watch maker should also listen to what you want done too though. Explain your position - that you want originality over case integrity (water/moisture proofing), that you only want the movement serviced. If he's good, he'll respect your wishes.

    If he insists, then maybe move on.
     
  8. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 24, 2015

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    I have a few questions for you...you list observations like the dial is water damaged (it's obviously not brand new looking) but you don't really explain what this comment means. Was he suggesting it be refinished?

    If you want water resistance, then I would also recommend replacing the crown and the crystal, as they are both integral to the water resistance of the watch. I would also suggest the case tube might need replacing.

    Nothing that has been clearly stated is in any way out of line for a typical service. So right now I don't see any reason why you would not trust this watchmaker unless there is more to the story than what you are telling in this post.

    If you don't want those things done, simply tell him what you do want done and what you want left as original. But if you don't agree to replacing parts that are needed for water resistance, then don't expect the watch to have any or be covered by his warranty if it leaks. If he won't work with you on what you want done or not done (you have not indicated that he is forcing these on you) then find another watchmaker.

    This isn't rocket science, so talk with the guy and come to an understanding, or find someone else if you can't. Assuming he is not trustworthy or doesn't care about vintages watches as much as you do is a bit over the top based on what you have posted here mate. We don't know what's important to you unless you tell us - we are watch repairers not mind readers after all... ;)

    Cheers, Al
     
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  9. novina Jul 24, 2015

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    I understand where he is coming from. But he never asked me or told me that these( crown and crystal) were part of the sealing component of the watch. Well ok, he did mention that the water intrusion was probably due to the crown.
    Here is the best picture I currently have of the watch face,
    20150720_170728.jpg

    It has patina and he was descibing the dots,specks on the right side on the watch as the water intrution. Good possibility it is. Received this watch from California, and appears to have been cared for. As I was told last service was 2008. Not bad for a 55 year old watch. Now I am in Rhode Island and never far from any body of water, however I do not take my watches into the water ever. Never have probably never will. So, if the crown was the issue and was repalced during the service, would this stop and further spotting? Also, could the seal on the cystal be at fault, don't know, too new to vintage watches. So that is why I am asking. He gave me a quick estimate of the service, without the crown and crystal, between $150-$250 dollars which is not bad from what I have read. I wish I could of had I had a good picture of the movement, but my phone camera was not up to the task.
    caliber.jpg
    But what you are seeing at the bottom of the movement is a reflection of my shirt. This is one the the nicest looking movements I have seen.
    I just really am looking for some advise as how I should proceed. Would changing the cystal and the crown hurt any of its value? Will they be genuine Omega parts? How much do you think the crystal and crown should cost me? New to Omegas and this is alot to take in. Just want to preserve this for my son one day, and that means I need to make the right decisions now as I have a long time to wait before he can appreciate this for what it is.
     
  10. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 24, 2015

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    I'll do my best to answer your questions, but the guy to ask is the watchmaker you are dealing with...

    If the watch seals, it will stop further water intrusion. This is a good thing for the dial, hands, and movement.

    In my view that is cheap. I would suggest checking his reputation before handing him the watch to service.

    The crystal I suspect not, the crown maybe. But in any case you need to ask the watchmaker if all old parts will be returned to you. If they are, then you can always put the old crown back on if you want to sell it.

    Again, you need to clarify this with the watchmaker. You say he is Omega certified, so if that's true he should have access to genuine parts.

    The real answer is whatever he decides to charge. Only he knows what his overheads are, but the actual cost from Omega for each will not a be lot. I pay typically $35 for most Omega acrylic crystals, and steel crowns like this one are usually in the $25 area. I have not looked these parts up specifically though...

    Cheers, Al
     
  11. novina Jul 24, 2015

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    Al,
    Thank you so much for your input. I will be sure to have a good chat with him prior to approving any work. He should be calling me today around 6pm with an estimate. This also gives ne some time to check his reputation. You have gone a long way to answer my questions and set me a bit more at ease with proceeding or not. Again thank you so much for your assistance.

    Rob
     
  12. Canuck Jul 24, 2015

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    Watchmakers tend to estimate based on being able to guarantee the repair that they do. You overrule him by telling him to leave out some of the repairs he has suggested, expect him to perhaps decline the repair, or to advise you there will be no warranty if he agrees to do the repair you want done! You don't need to immerse a watch in water to experience intrusion of moisture! A case has to be virtually hermetically sealed in order to avoid leakage under all possible conditions. If the seal at the crystal, crown, or case back permit the case to "breathe" air, it's virtually a guarantee moisture will eventually find its way into the watch. Will replacing the crown or crystal (with original parts) affect the value? If you are not fixing it up for re-sale, why would this concern you? I think the messy dial would affect the value more than replacing necessary parts with genuine parts.
     
  13. novina Jul 24, 2015

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    Mind you, this is a vintage watch and the dial comes with that. Afer 55 years of service, the only true tell of its time on this planet is the dial and the scrathches on the case and cystal. And these scathes are not life altering in the lease and this watch is 100% original as far as I can tell. A redial supposedly kills the value of the watch, a crown not proper to the case also decreases value. A non orignal crystal, if one can tell the difference, will also decrease value. If I am going to pay more money than I really need to for a watch, as in any watch will give you the time, than I wish to protect that investment. And as the values of these watches increase with time, I do not want to hand my son,whom will ultimately inherit them from me one day be that sooner or later, a piece of junk. If he one day wants to sell it, than I want him to know that it is the real thing and not a want to be. I hope this is not just aunintelligable rant on my part and you can understand what I am trying to accomplish here. I do love my watches more and more each day as I appreciate the workmanship in them. I come from an automotive background and I like things that are put together right. And vintage watches show some remarkable work, just love to look at the movement. Ok, I'll stop now. Just need to do the right thing here.
     
  14. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 24, 2015

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    novina - no worries mate. We, or most of us anyway, understand where you are coming from. One man's "mess" is another man's treasure. Personally I think the patina on the dial is still pretty attractive - not pristine by any means but certainly not ugly or anything close to that. I'm sure many if not most here would appreciate it for what it is. And yes redialing would be a mistake in my view.

    It's clear not all watchmakers work the same way or understand the market the way collectors do, so that is why in my first reply I suggested that if he is not willing to do things as you ask, find someone who will. I can assure you they are out there, but you may need to hunt a bit to find one who will accommodate your requests.

    I'll repeat it again just to remind you to ask, but make sure he agrees to give you the old parts back.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  15. novina Jul 24, 2015

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    I value all the input given here. I am new to swiss watches, but do own a Bulova Kirkwood Automatic (swiss made) and a Bulova with swiss movement. The Kirkwood will need servicing soon also, so I want to find someone I can trust. Also it was this watchmaker that made me understand that most watchmakers will not want to work on all watches. Some are just not worth the money to repair. But swiss watches seems to be making a comeback and again are being appreciated for their quality. I have made a choice that as long as I can afford to purchase and service a watch, I would like it to be something I desire and perhaps something I will pass on. I will talk to the watchmaker and go from there. I am sure we can come to a workable arrangement that works to both our benefits.
     
  16. italy1861 Jul 24, 2015

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    Replacing the crystal won't effect the value and is usually replaced several times when a watch is 50+ years old (collectors know this)... The dial should be left alone in my opinion.. Crown is up to you.. If you want the watch to resist moisture/condensation, crown will have to be replaced especially if your going to wear it often... I wouldn't go swimming with it but, if it's humid where you live you may have it fog up on you.. Regardless, have him give you the old parts so you can put them back on when or if you feel necessary...
     
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  17. novina Jul 27, 2015

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    So I talked to the watchmaker quickly on Friday evening. Agreed to do the service for a very reasonable sum of $175(USD). Probably due to the fact on how clean the movement was. Crystal is for later, he wants $75 for that. But this is what got me, the crown, $135. His explaination is that Omega will not sell him just the crown. He has to get the entire stem with the crown. 2 piece stem and crown unit on the watch. Sound about right that Omega does not want to just provide the crown, maybe to match the stem properly?? Anyways, had no problem differing the crown and crystal for later. Will discuss the crown issue further with him when I pick it up in a couple of weeks. Will also discuss the stem tube as mentioned by Archer, perhaps this is what he meant? Not sure, but right now happy with him as he was willing to listen to me and did not push me in any direction.
    Another thing I wish to speak to him is about his facebook page. Apparently, they have the tooling to make dials for Omegas. Is this even possible? Has a couple of pictures with dials they made and the old original with it. Looks nice, at least if this is not just a quick redail but could be used for a watch that is beyond saving the dial. Just another option.
    Again, thank you all for the information.
     
  18. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 27, 2015

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    Some interesting numbers being given. Some people are fine with keystone pricing, but that is not my policy for parts. He can charge whatever he wants to as I mentioned previously.

    I don't know what case reference your watch is, or what the crown part number is, but I buy crowns all the time just on their own, so the claim that they won't sell him just the crown is not one I have heard before. But yes, sometimes the thread in the crown is a different size than it is in the old crown, so the part that screws into the crown may have to be changed. Now that part typically comes in a long length, and there is time involved in cutting it to the right length, so some labour is involved. But the parts themselves are not expensive - new stem is $9 typically...

    Also, most case tubes are just $3 each, but there is labour involved in replacing them.

    All these prices assume no precious metals, so unless your watch is white gold I would assume they a re accurate.

    There are plenty of places that refinish Omega dials, so all you need is the correct machinery for making the dies and printing them. So it's possible he does this in house, but this will negatively affect the value.

    Cheers, Al
     
  19. novina Jul 27, 2015

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    Thank you again for the insight Al. As stated, I wil discuss the stem and crown with him when I pick it up. My watch is satinless steel,
    case # 14765 3 SC
    caliber 550
    serial # 17999237
    I do think this is the 2 piece oull out crown, so not sure there are any threads. Perhaps you could tell by the case and claiber number. I also believe he may want to change the crown,stem and possibly the tube as he warned me about even washing my hands with the watch on my wrist. But no worries, it will all be figured out.
    As for the dail, I was just saying he could do it. I would use this method only for a watch with a good movement but totally destroyed dial. Not sure how such a senario would change value as even a collector may have doubts about owning one in this condition. Again, I am learning and that is totally another discussion in itself.
    Thanks,

    Rob
     
  20. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 27, 2015

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    Yes there are threads - this is how the crown attaches to the stem. Crystal is $35, crown is $24, 1/2 stem for the crown end is $5, and new case tube is $3. Of course labour not included, and there is no need to but the stem with the crown...